Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:53 am

I get that. I guess what I'm saying is when you have two starters (possibly three if Morton continues to progress) that will probably outperform him, he isn't 14 million important to this team.

My take - he backed himself into a corner when he said Pirates or retirement, still feels that way but now he has leverage for some extra dollars. I still think it's pittsburgh or retirement. What's crazy, the Pirates offer him the best shot at a world series of the teams he's reportedly considering (PIT, PHI, BALT)
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:30 pm

I totally agree Ulf. He cant come out and say he's coming back but only to the pirates - he'd never see the bucs max offer if he did that.

And I want to be clear i know in the current market 14 is reasonable for AJ, its just not feasible for the Pirates. Hes only about a 3 WAR so losing him won't make or break the team. The starting rotation today is so much better than Jan 29 2013 even without AJ.

I just cant stand the blind cheap comments when the numbers suggest otherwise.

Its not like were looking at another year of john van Ben scoten here... if the season started today, Jeff Locke would be the 6th starter. He was an all star last year.

If I had to guess I'd say AJ returns at around 10-12 million and if not its because he took 15 elsewhere. He ain't gonna leave pittsburgh over 2 million. And he ain't looking for more than a 1 year deal
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:49 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:I totally agree Ulf. He cant come out and say he's coming back but only to the pirates - he'd never see the bucs max offer if he did that.

And I want to be clear i know in the current market 14 is reasonable for AJ, its just not feasible for the Pirates. Hes only about a 3 WAR so losing him won't make or break the team. The starting rotation today is so much better than Jan 29 2013 even without AJ.

I just cant stand the blind cheap comments when the numbers suggest otherwise.

Its not like were looking at another year of john van Ben scoten here... if the season started today, Jeff Locke would be the 6th starter. He was an all star last year.

If I had to guess I'd say AJ returns at around 10-12 million and if not its because he took 15 elsewhere. He ain't gonna leave pittsburgh over 2 million. And he ain't looking for more than a 1 year deal


14 million is not feasible for the Pirates? Of course it is. I doubt Nutting will have to be pawning off the office furniture to cover A.J.'s salary. And it would have been an even easier salary to pick up if they didnt spend 5 million on a very risky pitcher to begin with. A.J. offers stability to a rotation that has a lot of question marks. Can Francisco Liriano duplicate the 2013 season? Will Wandy be healthy and still be an effective starter? Same question for Charlie Morton? Will Gerit Cole suffer from a sophomore slump? Will Jameson Taillon be as good as advertised? Will we get the first half of 2013 Jeff Locke or the second half version? Out of all those guys mentioned, I'd take A.J. in a heartbeat as far knowing what you are going to get from him.

The Pirates made the playoffs because of pitching, you would think that if they arent going to do anything for 1B or RF that they would atleast try to keep in tact the pitching unit that got them into the playoffs.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:01 pm

Maybe Burnett wants a two year deal. Do you think they should do that?

No one should have any problem with how the Pirates handled Burnett, and no one should have any problem with Burnett. He made $16M last year, he shouldn't be expected to take a paycut just to stay on the Pirates. They were the league's darlings last year, but they still have lots more goodwill to earn from the casual fan (as evidenced by this Burnett discussion).

The Pirates aren't going to committ big money in the free agent market, it's just the way it is. Long term success for them is in developing and paying internal talent. Next up, Marte & Cole.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:06 pm

On the crappy braves message board i found, lots of people want burnett. Their rotation is a little younger though.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:11 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:14 million is not feasible for the Pirates? Of course it is. I doubt Nutting will have to be pawning off the office furniture to cover A.J.'s salary. And it would have been an even easier salary to pick up if they didnt spend 5 million on a very risky pitcher to begin with. A.J. offers stability to a rotation that has a lot of question marks. Can Francisco Liriano duplicate the 2013 season? Will Wandy be healthy and still be an effective starter? Same question for Charlie Morton? Will Gerit Cole suffer from a sophomore slump? Will Jameson Taillon be as good as advertised? Will we get the first half of 2013 Jeff Locke or the second half version? Out of all those guys mentioned, I'd take A.J. in a heartbeat as far knowing what you are going to get from him.



You cant sit here and point out obvious issues with the rest of the rotation but ignore the obvious issues with burnett: hes old and hes has spent a ton of time on the disabled list in the past 10 years. not saying he cant contribute, but there is no certainty that burnett is going to deliver 200 strikeouts and a 3.50 ERA.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby MWB on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:23 pm

Definitely not a certainty for Burnett. But he's made at least 30 starts each of the last 6 seasons and is a fairly reliable k guy, especially in the nl.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:26 pm

If the Pirates can settle up between $12-14 million for one year, then I would hope they would do it. If he's looking for 2 years or more than than, then he can go find work elsewhere.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:02 pm

Crankshaft wrote:If the Pirates can settle up between $12-14 million for one year, then I would hope they would do it. If he's looking for 2 years or more than than, then he can go find work elsewhere.


The projected difference in WAR between Volquez and Burnett is around 1 win. If thats the case why spend that much for 1 win?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:10 pm

Definitely don't understand why they agreed to pay Volzquez $5M. Seems like a guy they could have waited on, i'm just going to assume they're advanved analytics see something in him that none of us do.

I'd just like to point out something from last year, Brandon McCarthy and Liriano both received similar contracts, I'm pretty sure the sentiment here was that McCarthy was the better flier to take. Also the Hanrahan/Melancon swap.

While I think that Volzuqez and Burnett have to be looked at independently, it's not an either or...but sort of in the sense of who'll be making a regular turn in the rotation. I trust the advanced analytics that they are using to make decision on the pitchers. The marginal upgrade from Volzquez to Burnett will not be worth anywhere near $10M.

The 2014 Burnett, regardless of where he signs, compared to the 2013 Burnett will have a higher ERA, lower K/9 and deal with some injury issues.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:12 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:If the Pirates can settle up between $12-14 million for one year, then I would hope they would do it. If he's looking for 2 years or more than than, then he can go find work elsewhere.


The projected difference in WAR between Volquez and Burnett is around 1 win. If thats the case why spend that much for 1 win?


There's value in having a guy like Burnett who can eat innings, though whether the Pirates are a team that should spend $14M on an innings eater is another story.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:11 am

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/ ... spects-mlb

Law wrote this about Austin Meadows, who he ranked 35th:

He might have the best shot of anyone in the 2013 draft class to explode into an 8-WAR player, the way Mike Trout -- another huge, athletic center fielder who proved more polished than forecasted -- did after 2009.


The chances that Meadows becomes an 8 WAR player are probably about 1 in a million. It's still cool to see the Pirates have someone with that potential.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:30 am

Does Meadows have the kind of speed to be an 8 WAR player? I'm not well versed on the makeup of WAR, but it seems like good baserunning is a major part of boosting your WAR. Either way, that's a much better opinion on Meadows than what Baseball America was saying on their podcast. They said his lack of power will diminish his hit tool and plate discipline because pitchers will just challenge him because he poses no power threat.

Also, some good stuff from espn Schoenfield chat.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49902

Mike (Pittsburgh)


Assuming a mid-Summer outfield of McCutchen, Marte and Polanco, what are the chances of another fly ball touching the outfield grass against the Pirates??? That will be quite an outfield.

David Schoenfield (1:49 PM)


That's why the Pirates don't have to invest in Burnett. That outfield defense will help make any pitcher better. If Polanco is that good on D -- will have to look at all-time greatest defensive outfields. Hmm. Mariners were good when they had Cameron and Ichiro, but they never had a regular left fielder


Mike (Mission Viejo, CA)


What team do you think is best suited to win now as well as in the future? When you consider high-end talent in the miniors, major league roster and money to spend I think the Dodgers, Red Sox and Rangers are the top three.

David Schoenfield (1:41 PM)


Cardinals, Red Sox .. heck, maybe the Pirates if we're looking at the next five years since they have so much young talent on the way and McCutchen signed to a team-friendly contract. Rangers and Dodgers have a ton of money, of course, but not the number of young players or farm system depth as the Cardinals, Red Sox, Pirates.

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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:23 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:Should have had Mr Colby make this post.


I feel robbed. I bring the bucs back to the playoffs and this is how you treat me?!?


What do you mean?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:53 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:Should have had Mr Colby make this post.


I feel robbed. I bring the bucs back to the playoffs and this is how you treat me?!?


What do you mean?


So is this thread still the OFFICIAL one?
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