Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:58 pm

columbia wrote:Pirates fans are spoiled rotten?

no the influx of stiller n pangwins fans are
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:57 pm

Rocco wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:Thank you for participating Fort. Take your .178 and sit down.

Have to think Sanchez gets the call up late in the year. His defense is better and he can't hit much worse.


If they can't find the courage to dump He Who Shall Not Be Named, then McKenry is safe.

I believe I know to whom you refer to when you say "He Who Shall Not be Named" but truly that could be any one of several of the usual suspects.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:33 pm

NashvilleCat wrote:
Rocco wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:Thank you for participating Fort. Take your .178 and sit down.

Have to think Sanchez gets the call up late in the year. His defense is better and he can't hit much worse.


If they can't find the courage to dump He Who Shall Not Be Named, then McKenry is safe.

I believe I know to whom you refer to when you say "He Who Shall Not be Named" but truly that could be any one of several of the usual suspects.


Hopeless has his own name. McKenry is The Fort. Snider is bad but he's not offensively bad, and he's likely going to pull a Brandon Moss 2.0 once he leaves town. That should narrow down who is HWSNBN.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:41 pm

Voldemort's inbred cousin, inge?
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:51 pm

The Cards are hitting .337 with runners on base. That can't last, can it?
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:04 am

Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I guess we'll really see how much ownership cares about having a winning team. If they do nothing or just a small move, it will show that ownership really does not care.


This crap again?

Midseason 2011: "If the Pirates don't make a trade then the Nuttings aren't serious about winning."- Pirates fans (they traded for Ludwick and Derrek Lee, but wisely didn't go in hard since the team wasn't that good)

Offseason 2011-12: "If the Pirates don't add payroll and bring in free agents the Nuttings aren't serious about winning."- Pirates fans (they signed Barmes and Barajas, traded for Burnett - 1 of those 3 worked out; also made significant offers to Oswalt and Edwin Jackson but were turned down)

Spring training, 2012: "If the Pirates don't extend McCutchen the Nuttings aren't serious about winning."- Pirates fans (Cutch signed to a friendly deal)

Mid-season 2012: "If the Pirates don't make a trade then the Nuttings aren't serious about winning."- Pirates fans (traded for Wandy, Snider and Gaby Sanchez; ditched McGehee in a move that backfired spectacularly when Chad Qualls showed up)

Off-season 2012-13: "If the Pirates don't spend money in the offseason the Nuttings don't care about winning."- Pirates fans (signed Martin and Liriano, which I'd say worked out pretty well)

At some point when will people accept that ownership does care about winning instead of moving the goalposts every time they do what people say the Pirates aren't going to do since they don't care? They've made it clear they aren't going to sacrifice their long-term vision for an incremental short-term upgrade. That may or may not be the best plan, and there's data points on both sides of it (the Blue Jays this year are a good example of why going all in can backfire, though every move they took made sense). If they think Taillon and Polanco have more value to Pirates teams down the road than they would whatever veteran those prospects would bring in, so be it. Management's far from perfect but at this point they've done enough that the "they don't care about winning" complaint should die a fiery death.



I don't live in Pittsburgh anymore, I live in Chicago actually and God knows, I know that spending money does not always equal success. The Cubs are one of the few teams in baseball that spend like crazy and still lose. With that said, the Nuttings are one of the few ownership groups that are making very good money on their team right now. Most baseball owners dont own teams to make money. They own the team to win and because its a passion for them. See Mark Cuban. The Nuttings are getting an increase in TV money this year, millions of dollars on top of the 10-20 M in profit they make every year. They have a payroll that ranks in the bottom half of the league. Just because they're spending a little bit more than in previous years does not say much to me.

I do think they have a decent general manager and definite progress has been made. They are signing their draft picks, doing better scouting and player development. The evidence shows in some of the young stars they have and will have for years to come. This is what small market teams like Oakland, Minnesota, Milwaukee have been doing years and have been doing it well. After 20 years, they're finally figuring it out and making some smart baseball decisions. Huntington brought in the right manager for this team and the culture is changing without question. I do think this team has turned the corner and things are changing, but I give more credit to Huntington than anybody else for some of the moves you described above and granted many of them didnt work out.

Barmes and Barajas were not good signings nor good examples of the team spending money. In fact, considering they are paying Barmes 5 million dollars for what? Good defense? Again, not good signings. The Liriano signing was good by Huntington, but they spent a million. They took a chance on somebody nobody else wanted. It worked out, congrats to Huntington but what does that have to do with the Nuttings.

The Burnett trade was a good one and a nice move by Huntington, because the Yankees wanted to get rid of him. In both the Burnett and the Wandy trades they got both the Yankees and the Astros to pick up significant chunks of salary for the Pirates to accept those trades. Are Burnett and Wandy getting a good amount of money from the Pirates? Yes. But that's the cost for good pitchers. When push comes to shove next season, are they going to spend whats necessary to keep A.J? If they do, it will be a shocker. What do you think Cole and Locke are going to cost if they continue playing the way they are in a few years down the road? A lot more than what they are paying Burnett and Wandy. And when that time does come, are the Nuttings going to take some of the profit they are taking from the fans every year and make sure these players are retained? I have my doubts. Signing McCutchen to what he is making was more of McCutchen giving Pirates management a hometown discount more so than anything else. He could have easily earned alot more for the player he is.

Baseball is not a cap sport, meaning spending money does mean more than in other sports. The Pirates ownership group are one of the few owners who make big profits of off their teams. If they are serious about winning, how about they put in another 10-20 M at the trade deadline. Not just to say they spent money, but to say that they see a potential playoff contender in this team right now and that this is our best chance in 20 years to maybe do something. The Pirates are for real and with 1 or 2 upgrades in players, they could be a serious contender. All they need to say is that if Huntington can find the right player(s) and the right trade to make, that they will support him financially in those decisions to upgrade this team. I dont know if trading for Alex Rios is the right trade to make (using an example). Depends what would cost to get him and how he can help this team, but his 13 million dollar salary should not be a part of the equation for why or why not they should get him.

Say what you want about the moves the Penguins made at the trade deadline to improve the team. They did not all work out. But nobody can question whether or not Penguins ownership did everything they could to win and they did that by showing the willingness to spend money and they continue to do so, by giving out these major contracts. Bob Nutting turned down Burkle and Mario's offer to buy the team in 2010. Is there any question in your mind that if they would have bought the team, that they would have done everything in their power to make this team a winner? When it came down to spending money, they would have done so. There is no question about that. There are still questions to be had on whether or not Bob Nutting will do whats right for this team when push comes to shove. Baseball is a money game, he has to show me and I think many Pirate fans that he is not interested in just collecting the fan's money every year. They can afford to spend more, trust me, they can afford to spend a lot more than they do. The question is, whether or not they're willing to do it. I'm not sold yet and until that time, I will be skeptical of the Nuttings and I think you should be too given they have a pretty poor track record if you go back in time.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby canaan on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:53 am

TL;DR: Spending money is only good when it works out and when it works out, its not the nuttings, its huntington.

nodoy.jpg
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:41 am

I remember when I was 50% of the people around here defending the moves of the Pirates' front office...probably because it was only like 18 months ago. :pop:
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:24 am

BleuLineLady wrote:Say what you want about the moves the Penguins made at the trade deadline to improve the team.


The pens this season were far and away the most talented team in the east and probably the most talented team in the nhl. The pirates arent even the most talented team in the NL Central. the pens went all in because they were stacked. this pirate team isnt stacked, and so therefore the obvious move isnt to just trade whatever you have available for big names.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby pfim on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:26 am

I don't think you can fault the FO or ownership for their plan, it has always made sense. The lack of execution up until this point is the questionable aspect.

They're still a gaping hole in their lineup that hasn't ever been addressed, their bench is fairly terrible. The good thing about this team more than the last two years, is that they don't have a hole in their rotation that I can see so their focus on improvement will be very narrow this summer.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:55 am

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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:57 am

I don't understand the Nutting sentiment of "not wanting to win" over the last 5 years.

Have they made mistakes? Yes. But I don't htink it has anything to do with "not wanting to win".
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:57 am

Collins believes the catcalls took a mental toll on Wright, who went 3 for 14 with one RBI in the series.

“I'm sure it did,” Collins said. “He's tired.”


So....the fans helped get Wright off his game and helped the Pirates win the series?
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:59 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
Collins believes the catcalls took a mental toll on Wright, who went 3 for 14 with one RBI in the series.

“I'm sure it did,” Collins said. “He's tired.”


So....the fans helped get Wright off his game and helped the Pirates win the series?


Exactly. What a moron.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 am

lol, I also love that he talks about how Wright epitomizes baseball, and in his next breath, talks about how David Wright is so thrown off by fans booing him that he has a crappy series.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:03 am

newarenanow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:
Collins believes the catcalls took a mental toll on Wright, who went 3 for 14 with one RBI in the series.

“I'm sure it did,” Collins said. “He's tired.”


So....the fans helped get Wright off his game and helped the Pirates win the series?


Exactly. What a moron.


I like that he says that and then says "he's tired". So which is it?
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:05 am

they also mention hopeless has new walk up music, i.e. dont stop believing from journey.

kenny the kangaroo's reaction to this new song:

a.) its either a cheap desperate ploy to get yinzers to like him
b.) it would be alright if the pirates sent clint barmes on a midnight train to anywhere
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby since1970 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:15 am

regardless of the Pedro thing, as a fan aren't you supposed to boo the best player on the ooposition? There was a time the real superstar fed off the booing and tried to elevate his game, not crawl into his locker for a good cry, or have his manager give the fans a "shame on you" speech
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:19 am

since1970 wrote:regardless of the Pedro thing, as a fan aren't you supposed to boo the best player on the ooposition?


I went to a Mets game a while ago, they were playing the Braves and the crowd was relentlessly booing Chipper Jones every chance they had. But, I don't think we need any sort of evidence to prove Collins is being ridiculous.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:21 am

Troy Loney wrote:
since1970 wrote:regardless of the Pedro thing, as a fan aren't you supposed to boo the best player on the ooposition?


I went to a Mets game a while ago, they were playing the Braves and the crowd was relentlessly booing Chipper Jones every chance they had. But, I don't think we need any sort of evidence to prove Collins is being ridiculous.


Mets fans booed Jones because he destroyed the Mets.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:23 am

since1970 wrote:regardless of the Pedro thing, as a fan aren't you supposed to boo the best player on the ooposition? There was a time the real superstar fed off the booing and tried to elevate his game, not crawl into his locker for a good cry, or have his manager give the fans a "shame on you" speech


Wright needs to walk in Sidney Crosby's shoes for a day.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby meow on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:27 am

newarenanow wrote:
since1970 wrote:regardless of the Pedro thing, as a fan aren't you supposed to boo the best player on the ooposition? There was a time the real superstar fed off the booing and tried to elevate his game, not crawl into his locker for a good cry, or have his manager give the fans a "shame on you" speech


Wright needs to walk in Sidney Crosby's shoes for a day.

He'd have a mental breakdown after two shifts in Philly.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby since1970 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:29 am

seriously, just ask Philly fans what good booing Crosby does, there's your perfect example. I think Pete Rose said something like I tried to make them boo louder every time up, or words to that effect. I've heard a lot of players think of the boos at away games the same as cheers at home, and I'm talking strictly booing, not the other vile crap.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:31 am

Wait...is this thread turning into satire or are people really trying to say that Wright is actually weak in the spotlight? The guy is a perennial all-star in the biggest sports city in the world.
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Re: Official 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:33 am

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:Say what you want about the moves the Penguins made at the trade deadline to improve the team.


The pens this season were far and away the most talented team in the east and probably the most talented team in the nhl. The pirates arent even the most talented team in the NL Central. the pens went all in because they were stacked. this pirate team isnt stacked, and so therefore the obvious move isnt to just trade whatever you have available for big names.


I wasnt suggesting giving away the farm, nor giving away top prospects for big names. The Penguins really didnt give up all that much players wise outside of Joe Morrow and a 1st, but I wasnt referencing assets rather more so than the willingness to take on salary. The Pens had an unusual amount of space to take on salary and they did so during their trade deadline. My point wasnt about prospects or managing their assets properly through the trade deadline, its more about the Pirate ownership having the willingness to take on more salary if the right trade does come up. The point was about taking on salary not about throwing away the future for now.
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