North Korea

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Re: North Korea

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Shyster wrote:If we would never, ever invade North Korea, then why do we hold annual war games with South Korea that include simulated amphibious landings?

Inchon.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Shyster on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:03 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Shyster wrote:If we would never, ever invade North Korea, then why do we hold annual war games with South Korea that include simulated amphibious landings?

Inchon.

Yeah, I know (and that operation was brilliant). But holding war games where you simulate attacking someone is not exactly a good way to convince them that you have no intent to attack them, regardless of whether you label the games “defensive” or not.

Look, say there’s someone who is totally nuts and paranoid and they believe you are out to get them, which is completely not true. If you decide to march up and down in front of their house carrying a rifle, that’s totally not helping the situation—even if you constantly chant “I’m not going to attack you!” It might—just might—be a better idea to stay the heck away from the nutcase entirely.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Gaucho on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:24 pm

So bizarre, so bizarre.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:29 pm

Shyster wrote:
Guinness wrote:DPRK is NO threat to any American living in the United States, including Hawaii.

Agreed. Personally, I think it is ridiculous and unnecessary flame-fanning to treat their blowhard threats as serious. Most likely, this posturing is a way for Kim Junior to solidify his own position by rallying everyone around an enemy that isn’t him. By moving fighters and bombers to South Korea, positioning warships off the coast, etc. we are merely playing right into those plans.

Moreover, North Korea’s claims are not entirely without merit. They’re saying that the United States is targeting them and could attack. Yeah, the United States never gins up reasons to go to war… except maybe for Panama, Grenada, Iraq, and Libya, to name a just a few.


In addition to your list: The Spainish-American War 1898, The Mexican-American War 1846, Wounded Knee 1890, The overthrow of Hawaii 1893, Russia 1918, El Salvador 1981, Lebanon 1982 would all be included in my historic scope of "ginning up" reasons for conflict.
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Re: North Korea

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:40 pm

tifosi77 wrote:His name is GBU-57A/B, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's 30,000 pounds worth of don't give a f**k about terrain.


According to wikipedia, the US has 16 of these. There are 21,000 artillery pieces.
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Re: North Korea

Postby count2infinity on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:48 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:His name is GBU-57A/B, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's 30,000 pounds worth of don't give a f**k about terrain.


According to wikipedia, the US has 16 of these. There are 21,000 artillery pieces.


as if we openly went to war, we wouldn't/couldn't create more?
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Re: North Korea

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:49 pm

Does our military send daily memos to wikipedia updating them on the inventory of our armory?
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Re: North Korea

Postby newarenanow on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:56 pm

Shyster wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
Shyster wrote:If we would never, ever invade North Korea, then why do we hold annual war games with South Korea that include simulated amphibious landings?

Inchon.

Yeah, I know (and that operation was brilliant). But holding war games where you simulate attacking someone is not exactly a good way to convince them that you have no intent to attack them, regardless of whether you label the games “defensive” or not.

Look, say there’s someone who is totally nuts and paranoid and they believe you are out to get them, which is completely not true. If you decide to march up and down in front of their house carrying a rifle, that’s totally not helping the situation—even if you constantly chant “I’m not going to attack you!” It might—just might—be a better idea to stay the heck away from the nutcase entirely.


Or you can say that there is a nutcase across the street from you that threatens you every few days, so you prepare yourself for an attack and practice what you'd do if that nutcase ever did cross the street and attack your home.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Shyster on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:58 pm

newarenanow wrote:Or you can say that there is a nutcase across the street from you that threatens you every few days, so you prepare yourself for an attack and practice what you'd do if that nutcase ever did cross the street and attack your home.

True. But in this case, the nutcase lives across town and doesn't own a car.
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Re: North Korea

Postby newarenanow on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Shyster wrote:
newarenanow wrote:Or you can say that there is a nutcase across the street from you that threatens you every few days, so you prepare yourself for an attack and practice what you'd do if that nutcase ever did cross the street and attack your home.

True. But in this case, the nutcase lives across town and doesn't own a car.


But one of your close friends does live across the street from him and you are there to help protect him.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Shyster on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:07 pm

newarenanow wrote:But one of your close friends does live across the street from him and you are there to help protect him.

My friend can protect himself, I don’t have the money to protect him, and many of my friend’s family members would like me to go the heck away because I’ve been occupying several rooms of their house (without paying rent) for around 50 years.
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Re: North Korea

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:08 pm

I'm confused. Do NAN and Shyster live in North Korea?
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Re: North Korea

Postby Shyster on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:08 pm

count2infinity wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:His name is GBU-57A/B, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's 30,000 pounds worth of don't give a f**k about terrain.

According to wikipedia, the US has 16 of these. There are 21,000 artillery pieces.

as if we openly went to war, we wouldn't/couldn't create more?

They seem to cost something like $15 million apiece, so I kinda hope not.
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Re: North Korea

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:12 pm

The South Koreans hate us and want us out.
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Re: North Korea

Postby columbia on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:14 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


After redwill showed up and claimed to be "the seer", who can blame them.
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Re: North Korea

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:15 pm

columbia wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


After redwill showed up and claimed to be "the seer", who can blame them.


:lol:
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Re: North Korea

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:38 pm

lol
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Re: North Korea

Postby newarenanow on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:46 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


South Korea loves us. They gave us Hines Ward's mom, Jimmy Paek, and Glenn from the Walking Dead.
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Re: North Korea

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:48 pm

newarenanow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


South Korea loves us. They gave us Hines Ward's mom, Jimmy Paek, and Glenn from the Walking Dead.


Don't forget Gungham Style.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Guinness on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:01 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:His name is GBU-57A/B, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's 30,000 pounds worth of don't give a f**k about terrain.


According to wikipedia, the US has 16 of these. There are 21,000 artillery pieces.


GBU-57A/B is a "bunker buster". The US would not use it against artillery.

Those 21,000 pieces of artillery certainly pose no threat to the US.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Guinness on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:04 pm

Shyster wrote:
newarenanow wrote:But one of your close friends does live across the street from him and you are there to help protect him.

My friend can protect himself, I don’t have the money to protect him, and many of my friend’s family members would like me to go the heck away because I’ve been occupying several rooms of their house (without paying rent) for around 50 years.


:thumb:

Moreover, I would add that even if "I" did have the money to protect him, "I" wouldn't put the lives of my sons or brothers on the line to protect him.

I'm pretty sure I'd only be willing to do that to defend the lives of my family.
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Re: North Korea

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:07 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:His name is GBU-57A/B, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's 30,000 pounds worth of don't give a f**k about terrain.


According to wikipedia, the US has 16 of these. There are 21,000 artillery pieces.

Presumably they are not kept in 21,000 separate bunkers. Besides, if the NKs want to use all that artillery they kind of have to bring them out of the bunkers. (Indirect Fire 101, Step 3: "Make sure your artillery piece is not in a bunker when firing.")

However, the MOPs likely wouldn't be used against a target like an artillery bunker. It's more suited to something like....... a nuclear power plant. More likely to be employed against a hardened target like an underground cache would be the 5,000-lb little brother of the MOP, something called the GBU-28. (Which is also in the ROKAF arsenal.)

shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.

Entirely unsurprising factoid of the day: According to public polling, the closer in age you get to people who lived through the war and its immediate aftermath, the more popular America and Americans are.

But it's still nothing like as bad as the local sentiment towards our quasi-occupation in Okinawa.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:14 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:I'm confused. Do NAN and Shyster live in North Korea?


Fayette county.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:15 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


South Korea loves us. They gave us Hines Ward's mom, Jimmy Paek, and Glenn from the Walking Dead.


Don't forget Gungham Style.


Are you arguing that they love or that they hate us?
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Re: North Korea

Postby Guinness on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:17 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The South Koreans hate us and want us out.


South Korea loves us. They gave us Hines Ward's mom, Jimmy Paek, and Glenn from the Walking Dead.


Don't forget Gungham Style.


Are you arguing that they love or that they hate us?


Don't we have them to blame for Gangnam Style?
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