Formula 1 thread

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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby Shyster on Mon May 12, 2014 6:57 pm

In defense of the IndyCar guys (whoever the heck they are), I've seen plenty of standing-start crashes in F1 where someone stalls and gets nailed from behind.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 12, 2014 7:22 pm

And then you have Romain Grosjean at Spa...
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Mon May 12, 2014 8:04 pm

Well, the RoGros crash wasn't necessarily a function of a standing start. It was more a case of him not applying the brakes. In fact, you could argue that a standing start may have been beneficial, as the approach speed to the first turn is lower.

You don't see that many start stalls in F1 anymore, because the cars are fitted with anti-stall devices that automatically cut in the clutch if the engine bogs below a certain rpm in whatever gear. The problem is a lot of cars have hideously complicated procedures to re-engage the transmission; I've seen drivers get stranded on track simply because they didn't know how to get underway again and the marshals got tired waiting for them.

Champ Car only did standing starts for part of one year, but I don't remember any startline accidents. In fact, I only remember one stall incident at all; Mont Tremblant, 2007. Not saying there weren't others, but I remember the Canadian event because either two or three cars stalled at the off.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby CBear3 on Tue May 13, 2014 10:04 am

I think the Indycar guys butchered it at Baltimore a few seasons ago. They tried it twice and gave up for the day. It was a double header weekend though, so on Sunday they tried again and it worked without issue.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue May 13, 2014 10:08 am

I am going to be in Italy during the Italian Grand Prix. Worth seeing a F1 race?
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 13, 2014 11:15 am

It would be worth going to Monza (north of Milan) for the history of the track, sure. I have a friend who has a selfie she took on the old banking, and it makes me seriously jealous. (Monza is the oldest F1 venue still in use, with its first race dating back to the early 1920s) And the environment is probably killer, too; that is the home of the tifosi, Ferrari's home fans. And the tend to party it up.

As for the race, I would say there are probably better venues. (The U.S. and Canadian GPs would probably offer a better racing experience) But for the sheer spectacle, I'd say Monza is probably behind only Monaco.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby dodint on Tue May 13, 2014 11:29 am

Spa is my personal pinnacle of F1 GPs to attend in person, but Monza is close behind. Kind of spoiled here in the states, like tif said, as once you get to the track COTA would be a great experience, provided Austin doesn't screw up getting there to the point it's too frustrating. From what I understand college football refuses to budge for F1 so there is a home game that weekend and the whole town is impossible. Have some friends that go, and they go straight to COTA from the airport and then go right back to the airport that night.

Silverstone is allegedly the worst. It's soggy and the access roads are dirt/mud. I have no love for Silverstone as a circuit, either. If I take that job in Germany I plan to hit up as many European courses as I can. Ironically I don't really care for the modern Nurburgring since it's just another Tilkadrome. At least with Spa/Monza/Monaco/etc you're going somewhere.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue May 13, 2014 4:09 pm

As an anorak, I'd like to go to Silverstone. It hosted the first race of the World Championship era, and it is a proper quick track. I'd just take a helicopter to and from.

Actually scratch that - you couldn't pay me enough to get me in a helicopter.

Spa, Monaco, Monza, Suzuka...... and, oddly, Singapore. Those are the top five I want to visit. (Okay, the Singapore one is more about going to Singapore than it is about going to Singapore for F1)
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Mon May 19, 2014 10:32 am

Instead of co-opting the RIP thread...

Adieu to Sir Jack Brabham, Formula One World Champion in 1959, 1960 & 1966. The latter title making him the first - and likely only ever - man to become World Champion in a car of his own construction.

To mark his passing, Motor Sport Magazine re-printed an 1999 interview with Black Jack.

The world according to Jack
Personally I don’t think F1 would be as good to be in today as it was when we were driving. The driver role is not all that concerned with the car anymore; you don’t get involved in the technical side. As for driving, they go round on rails, they don’t have to change gear – just press a few buttons and computers do the rest for them. I just don’t think the challenge is as good.


And remember..... that was 15 years ago. ;)
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby dodint on Mon May 19, 2014 12:39 pm

Jack Brabham. :thumb:

tif, I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Suzuka. You can have it. It might literally be the very last track on the calendar that I would want to race myself.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby Shyster on Mon May 19, 2014 1:12 pm

The "last track" would be Monaco for me. Back when I played a lot of F1 video games, I hated, hated, hated Monaco. My favorite track to race was the pre-1995 incarnation of Imola.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby dodint on Mon May 19, 2014 1:18 pm

That's what my hate of Suzuka came from, iRacing and Gran Turismo. It feels like an incoherent collection of parts cobbled together by some drunk bastard. It's a souless patch of asphalt with no character, yet is hailed as one of the greatest racing circuits in the world. I have no idea why, maybe people like the Ferris Wheel. You can have your negative camber turns and quicksand, thanks. ;)

Imola is legit.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 19, 2014 1:20 pm

Shyster wrote:The "last track" would be Monaco for me. Back when I played a lot of F1 video games, I hated, hated, hated Monaco. My favorite track to race was the pre-1995 incarnation of Imola.


That's just why you have to qualify in pole.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Mon May 19, 2014 1:51 pm

dodint wrote:Jack Brabham. :thumb:

tif, I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Suzuka. You can have it. It might literally be the very last track on the calendar that I would want to race myself.

Wha?!?!?!

I've never heard a bad word about the track from anyone who has ever driven it. The esses alone would make the track a great challenge - a sequence of four consecutive corners with different radii, cambers and speeds, where your lap can be ruined by being 1 foot off line exiting the first of them. That's fantastic. It's a little less awesome since they reprofiled 130R and the chicane, but I would still love to have a go around there.

Plus, the Japanese fans are super fun.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby dodint on Mon May 19, 2014 2:00 pm

That's what I dislike most about it. Those curves seem so purposeless and not thought out at all. They feel like a copy of the esses at La Sarthe, but on steroids. More like "lets just plop these here and see what happens." It reminds me of Complex String from GT3, which is a fake track with every single type of track layout in one single circuit.

The only thing I really look forward to with Suzuka, and it only works with certain cars (lately for me, Z4 GT3), is trying to get the most out of 10 and still settling the car down for the Hairpin. So awesome when you get it right.

Japanese fans are awesome, I agree. Let them go be super fun at Fuji. ;)
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Mon May 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Well, it's important to remember that Suzuka was built as a test track for Honda. So the array of corners is designed to throw a variety of conditions at the cars. For example, Fiorano (Ferrari's test track in Maranello) has a similar figure-8 layout. Turns 2 and 3 are mirror images of each other, designed to test handling dynamics and the performance of oil and fuel pumps under cornering loads.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby dodint on Mon May 19, 2014 2:55 pm

That makes perfect sense, but in my mind, supports my theory that it's souless and devoid of character. ;)
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Fri May 23, 2014 2:01 pm

Up to today, there have been 17 timed practice sessions at the six race meetings so far. The complete list of sessions headed by someone other than a Mercedes driver is as follows:

Alonso, FP1 AUS
Alonso, FP1 CHI
Ricciardo, FP3 CHI (wet)
Alonso, FP2 MON (wet, drying)

That's it.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby CBear3 on Fri May 23, 2014 2:50 pm

And yet the Ferrari sucks hind teet when it matters.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Sat May 24, 2014 11:33 am

Nico, Nico, Nico......... you silly little man.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby Sigwolf on Sat May 24, 2014 12:48 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Nico, Nico, Nico......... you silly little man.


I was yelling at the TV as it happened. There is no way that was not intentional. I am quite surprised, however, that they are actually investigating it. Hopefully they will do the right thing. I wonder if there was a radio communication from his crew indicating that Hamilton was ahead of his pace before the "accidental" lock-up?
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby Spangler on Sat May 24, 2014 11:32 pm

I was watching a Formula 1 documentary on NBCSports called "1". I know absolutely nothing about F1, so I wanted to understand it a little more. It focused mainly on the safety aspect of the early days of F1. It was insanity seeing a lot of top drivers dying left and right. Impossible to imagine in other sports.

F1 seems like a million times more interesting than NASCAR, if I was a racing fan, I'd be more inclined to get into F1.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby DMcGrew on Sun May 25, 2014 8:44 am

Spangler wrote:F1 seems like a million times more interesting than NASCAR, if I was a racing fan, I'd be more inclined to get into F1.


I'm watching this Monaco race and trying to figure out why people think F1 is exciting. There's 0 passing. The cars who start on the front row almost always win.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby tifosi77 on Sun May 25, 2014 11:23 am

Sigwolf wrote:I was yelling at the TV as it happened. There is no way that was not intentional. I am quite surprised, however, that they are actually investigating it. Hopefully they will do the right thing. I wonder if there was a radio communication from his crew indicating that Hamilton was ahead of his pace before the "accidental" lock-up?

He would not necessarily have known that Hamilton was up on that lap, but he would have been aware that going into that lap he was still P1.

There is zero doubt in my mind that it was intentional; Mercedes' explanation that he braked later and was fighting the car has no credibility to me. He didn't lose the car until he counter-steered left (after turning in about 10 m early) and locked the right front wheel. There is nothing that you can say to me at this point that will convince me otherwise, and I'm flatly appalled that the stewards of the meeting allowed him to get away with it.

Spangler wrote:I was watching a Formula 1 documentary on NBCSports called "1". I know absolutely nothing about F1, so I wanted to understand it a little more. It focused mainly on the safety aspect of the early days of F1. It was insanity seeing a lot of top drivers dying left and right. Impossible to imagine in other sports.

That documentary is effing brilliant. I bought it and watched it online when it first came out, I bought it on Bluray and watched it the weekend that arrived, and I watched it both going to and returning home from Spain last month (Lufthansa in flight entertainment FTW). It really does bring into focus just how stupid dangerous the sport was through the first half of its modern existence. One of the highlights of my trip to Barcelona was walking the Montjuic circuit; impossible to imagine staging a Grand Prix at that venue in cars that produced 500 bhp.

The bit where Lord Hesketh talks about the collective ignorance of the team owners in the mid-70s for rejecting Bernie's offer to buy equal shares of the TV rights is fascinating. If you have any interest in learning more about that aspect of F1's history, I recommend to you two books "The Powerbrokers: The Battle For F1's Billions" and "Bernie's Game: Inside the Formula One World of Bernie Ecclestone". They're each about ten years old at this stage, and the latter is riddled with some really basic factual errors, but they both do a great job of setting forth the historical windings of how Bernie ended up where he is today, and why I don't really have a lot of sympathy for the team owners who cry about the cut of commercial revenue they receive.

DMcGrew wrote:I'm watching this Monaco race and trying to figure out why people think F1 is exciting. There's 0 passing. The cars who start on the front row almost always win.

It's definitely an acquired taste, I'll give you that. But to me, motor racing is about so much more than overtaking. You find F1 boring because there's no passing..... I find NASCAR dreary for the corollary reason; there's so much passing that it's meaningless. There's just no excitement in a NASCAR pass. That's why the recent contrivances in F1 like DRS annoy the absolute p|ss out of me - they render overtaking in F1 as meaningless as NASCAR. Of course he got by, he has a 12 km/h speed advantage down the straight because the wing slot opened up. It's just stupid; I don't even count a DRS pass as an overtake.

But remember that in F1, each team is also a constructor; by regulation, they have to design and build their own cars. Consequently, no two cars are alike. And you will not see more technologically advanced machinery on any racing circuit in the world, with the possible exception of Le Mans. (Which, mark your calendar, is in two weeks' time) And the development of the cars that takes place from race to race is fascinating. The top teams will each spend upwards of $400 million this year chasing tenths of a second in lap time.... and the cars will be obsolete come next March.

The on-track product is not always super exciting, on its face. But even in seasons where one team is running away with the results (Merc this year, Ferrari 2000-2006, Williams through the mid 90s, McLaren in the 80s and early 90s, etc), Formula One is always compelling..... if the total package is what floats your boat.
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Re: Formula 1 thread

Postby MRandall25 on Sun May 25, 2014 11:27 am

DMcGrew wrote:
Spangler wrote:F1 seems like a million times more interesting than NASCAR, if I was a racing fan, I'd be more inclined to get into F1.


I'm watching this Monaco race and trying to figure out why people think F1 is exciting. There's 0 passing. The cars who start on the front row almost always win.


To be fair, you can't really say Monaco is your standard F1 race since there's only like 5 feet between the cars and the walls.
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