2013 LGP College Football Thread

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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:08 pm

Troy Loney wrote:That's great. No reported child rapes in two years. NCAA proclaims that PSU is on the "right track".


:roll:

Penn State has done an excellent job transforming their program and holding themselves accountable. Sen. George Mitchell has stated as much, and the truth is, Penn State is probably now one of the most ethical and law-abiding universities in the country.

Bringing up "child rapes" as a bomb lobbed at PSU is grinding an axe at this point. They were hammered heavily by the NCAA, they have done an outstanding job changing their football program and athletic department as a whole, and they are being rewarded for it. I'm sure these scholarships are contingent on PSU continuing to rehabilitate and keep their program clean.

If you don't think Penn State is on the "right track", I'm not sure what you've been paying attention to. Unless your only argument is "but but but Sandusky raped children! Tear down Beaver Stadium!"
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:10 pm

“While there is more work to be done, Penn State has clearly demonstrated its commitment to restoring integrity in its athletics program,” said Mitchell. “The university has substantially completed the initial implementation of all the Freeh Report recommendations and its obligations to the Athletics Integrity Agreement, so relief from the scholarship reductions is warranted and deserved.”

Consistent with Mitchell’s recommendation, the Executive Committee agreed the existing postseason ban, $60 million fine to help fund child abuse programs and other sanctions outlined in the consent decree will remain in effect. However, the group may consider additional mitigation of the postseason ban in the future depending upon Penn State’s continued progress.


SO UNREASONABLE
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby columbia on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:11 pm

What's the status of that lawsuit against the NCAA?
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:15 pm

columbia wrote:What's the status of that lawsuit against the NCAA?

It's still pending. Prelim is in mid-october I believe.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:25 pm

Truth be told I don't really think the football program or athletic department has changed all that much aside from (obviously) more transparency. Emmert attacking the "culture" of PSU football was actually hilarious to me.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:36 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:That's great. No reported child rapes in two years. NCAA proclaims that PSU is on the "right track".


:roll:

Penn State has done an excellent job transforming their program and holding themselves accountable. Sen. George Mitchell has stated as much, and the truth is, Penn State is probably now one of the most ethical and law-abiding universities in the country.

Bringing up "child rapes" as a bomb lobbed at PSU is grinding an axe at this point. They were hammered heavily by the NCAA, they have done an outstanding job changing their football program and athletic department as a whole, and they are being rewarded for it. I'm sure these scholarships are contingent on PSU continuing to rehabilitate and keep their program clean.

If you don't think Penn State is on the "right track", I'm not sure what you've been paying attention to. Unless your only argument is "but but but Sandusky raped children! Tear down Beaver Stadium!"

The issues with PSU were issues that were, and do, exist at nearly every major colegiate university in the country. namely, that the CFB programs and the people involved with those programs are held to a much different set of standards than average, and are/were allowed to generally police themselves.
The difference at PSU was that you had a child preditor who used that environment to commit dasterdly acts.
In other words, the problem manifested itself in the worst possible way at PSU.
Now that appropriate oversight and accountability has been installed at PSU, they are probably one of the most ethically run programs in the NCAA.
To continue the Bowl Ban on account of the extent of the manifestation of Sandusky's acts, is inane.

And I'm anything but a PSU supporter.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:51 pm

They're pretty much making things up as they go at this point. Wouldn't be surprised to see the bowl ban lifted in the off-season.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:56 pm

lulz, Troll Loney.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:04 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:That's great. No reported child rapes in two years. NCAA proclaims that PSU is on the "right track".


:roll:

Penn State has done an excellent job transforming their program and holding themselves accountable. Sen. George Mitchell has stated as much, and the truth is, Penn State is probably now one of the most ethical and law-abiding universities in the country.

Bringing up "child rapes" as a bomb lobbed at PSU is grinding an axe at this point. They were hammered heavily by the NCAA, they have done an outstanding job changing their football program and athletic department as a whole, and they are being rewarded for it. I'm sure these scholarships are contingent on PSU continuing to rehabilitate and keep their program clean.

If you don't think Penn State is on the "right track", I'm not sure what you've been paying attention to. Unless your only argument is "but but but Sandusky raped children! Tear down Beaver Stadium!"


We have no idea if PSU has the institutional controls in place to prevent that sort of cover up/sweeping under the rug of scandal. It's probably arguable that most places don't have the controls in place to prevent such a disaster. All we know is that the individuals in charge of the University were capable of allowing that to happen. The institution is only the indirect cause as it was the actions of individuals who thought they were protecting the institution. There's no quantitative way of measuring "progress", in this case they are throwing a blanket statement saying that the University has made such progress.

The NCAA just didn't have any foundation to punish the institution for what happened. But how anyone can support and rally around the University after such a disgusting sequence of events is beyond me. But, tout your progress, it's not going to change the fact that PSU will likely be associated with child rape for the rest of your lifetimes.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:10 pm

The people that were responsible for these atrocities are no longer associated with the school in any way and will receive their day in court... but let's keep punishing the current school officials, players, community that had nothing to do with it. I like the logic here.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:12 pm

I blame Obama.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:17 pm

count2infinity wrote:The people that were responsible for these atrocities are no longer associated with the school in any way and will receive their day in court... but let's keep punishing the current school officials, players, community that had nothing to do with it. I like the logic here.


Ok. I'm pretty sure that I said the NCAA had no foundation for punishment, so they rectify their baseless punishment with a baseless comment about the University making progress. It's baseless because scandal prevention is a pretty difficult thing to measure.
Last edited by Troy Loney on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:17 pm

Troy Loney wrote:But, tout your progress, it's not going to change the fact that PSU will likely be associated with child rape for the rest of your lifetimes.


Eh, I would argue the vast majority of any negative press has long since passed in terms of Penn State and how it is viewed by the media, fans, etc. Obviously the story will always be associated with the school, and it's a huge tarnish, but I think you are way overestimating the size of the shadow over the program.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:20 pm

Troy Loney wrote:The NCAA just didn't have any foundation to punish the institution for what happened. But how anyone can support and rally around the University after such a disgusting sequence of events is beyond me.


You literally answered your own question before you even asked it.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:22 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
count2infinity wrote:The people that were responsible for these atrocities are no longer associated with the school in any way and will receive their day in court... but let's keep punishing the current school officials, players, community that had nothing to do with it. I like the logic here.


Ok. I'm pretty sure that I said the NCAA had no foundation for punishment, so they rectify their baseless punishment with a baseless comment about the University making progress. It's baseless because scandal prevention is a pretty difficult thing to measure.


I guess awareness is the biggest measurement. I got here just before the whole scandal broke out. I am half student half employee of the university if that makes any sense. Coming in as an employee then, the only things that I had to do were safety programs for working and sexual harassment training. I really think that was the end of it. Now every employee has to take an online class, sit through videos describing the correct protocol for reporting of suspicious activity (whether it be child molestation or not...), every employee had to sign off on rigorous background checks and even more if they are to be working with any child below the age of 18. There's a lot that has been instilled as far as awareness and education of what to do if you see something, how to report it, and many many explanations of what will happen to you if you report something suspicious, which is absolutely nothing. In fact they make it very clear that you will be protected from any sort of unjust firing for reporting something. Maybe from the outside looking in, people can say, "Meh...just the same as it was before." But it really isn't.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:24 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:The NCAA just didn't have any foundation to punish the institution for what happened. But how anyone can support and rally around the University after such a disgusting sequence of events is beyond me.


You literally answered your own question before you even asked it.



So you people now rally around and support PSU because of misguided punishment?

I would think that the right response would be to say that this institution doesn't deserve my ongoing attention and support.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:27 pm

Troy Loney wrote:I would think that the right response would be to say that this institution doesn't deserve my ongoing attention and support.


You probably never supported it anyway, so who cares?
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:28 pm

Most of PSU's fans that are currently PSU fans were also PSU fans before the scandal.... I don't see what you're getting at here? There is no rally behind PSU except for those that were fans of PSU to begin with. Even then, the rally is done. Whatever comes from the NCAA is just icing on the cake at this point. PSU is still a pretty healthy program and will be with or without further lifting of sanctions.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby mac5155 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:34 pm

I'd venture a guess that PSU lost a lot more fans than they gained since this happened.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:40 pm

mac5155 wrote:I'd venture a guess that PSU lost a lot more fans than they gained since this happened.


I would venture a guess that PSU lost a very, very small fraction of their fanbase, and once they get back on their feet with a quality football program (they are on their way there, IMO), it will be pretty much like it was before from a fan perspective, if not an institutional perspective
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:59 pm

How the added scholarships will affect recruiting classes:

Over the next four recruiting classes, Penn State will be able to bring in 70 players -- 56 percent more than the original plan's limitation of 45. That is an enormous boost to Penn State's recruiting. Put another way, Penn State will be able to bring in 93 percent of what any other college football team could bring in. To put it yet another way, the NCAA slashed its remaining penalties on incoming class size by 83-percent.

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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Rocco on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:21 pm

It's not difficult to acknowledge that heinous things happened at PSU while also acknowledging that the NCAA broke its own rules reach the desired outcome and score PR points and look like they were doing something by dropping severe punishments on PSU. It's also not hard to acknowledge that the NCAA is now trying to score PR points by backing off the punishments due to some rather high-profile blunders recently:

-Light punishment for Oregon despite actively paying recruit handlers to steer kids to their school;
-Ignoring some rather severe academic fraud at UNC;
-Having their investigation called into question at Miami because the investigators broke the rules to reach the desired outcome and score PR points (gee, where would they get that idea?) that resulted in Emmert denying all knowledge and refusing to hold himself to the same standards he holds coaches and administrations.

All the while the NCAA claims that PR had nothing to do with it. They continue to insult everyone's intelligence, but sometimes doing the right thing for the wrong reason is okay.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:40 pm

State president and NCAA Executive Committee chairwoman Lou Anna Simon hinted that change was coming.

When asked to revisit the Penn State decision, as part of a broader question on Emmert's tenure as a leader, Simon admitted that both the NCAA and Penn State caved to external pressures when they agreed to the hefty sanctions.

"I think the Penn State issue that was done, there was an outcry to do something and do it quickly,'' she told ESPN.com. "…At the time, the decision was to accept the Freeh Report and not have the NCAA separately investigate. That sure seemed like a good decision at the time.

"I think now it might have been handled differently by both parties. … In hindsight, you have to decide how much the public outcry pushed both sides in a process that was unconventional. It wasn't just the NCAA but Penn State that was the focus of this public outcry.''


http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId= ... rc=desktop
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:18 pm

Another added benefit to the revised sanctions is that USC fans are, for some stange reason, absolutely livid. Probably has something to do with violating actual NCAA rules though.
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Re: 2013 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:14 pm

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