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Re: NFL

Postby canaan on Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:54 am

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... s/3469895/

Terry Bradshaw dealing with memory loss/depression
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:57 am

This is in no way meant to be funny, but us this news? Maybe the depression but it has been ibvious for a while that he has brain damage.
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Re: NFL

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:07 am

Is there any doubt that the NFL needs to eliminate hits to the head almost in their entirety? I will never criticize another fine or rule change. These players are literally killing themselves. The sport will be just fine without head shots. The 15 yard penalties, I agree, are annoying. But once those start getting flags the players will adjust; they always do.
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Re: NFL

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:12 am

TheHammer24 wrote:Is there any doubt that the NFL needs to eliminate hits to the head almost in their entirety? I will never criticize another fine or rule change. These players are literally killing themselves. The sport will be just fine without head shots. The 15 yard penalties, I agree, are annoying. But once those start getting flags the players will adjust; they always do.


i'm pretty sure studies have shown that the repeated, low impact hits are more damaging than the less frequent head shots.
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Re: NFL

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:20 am

shmenguin wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Is there any doubt that the NFL needs to eliminate hits to the head almost in their entirety? I will never criticize another fine or rule change. These players are literally killing themselves. The sport will be just fine without head shots. The 15 yard penalties, I agree, are annoying. But once those start getting flags the players will adjust; they always do.


i'm pretty sure studies have shown that the repeated, low impact hits are more damaging than the less frequent head shots.

So, let's get rid of seatbelts on airplanes because fire poses the bigger threat.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:27 am

There is no way that fire poses a bigger threat on an airplane than an injury due to turbulance or a rough landing does. Your argument makes no sense.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:28 am

Sorry I don't feel bad for people that know the risks and get that kind of money. You'll never be able to completely take away headshots without seriously altering the game.
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Re: NFL

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:37 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Is there any doubt that the NFL needs to eliminate hits to the head almost in their entirety? I will never criticize another fine or rule change. These players are literally killing themselves. The sport will be just fine without head shots. The 15 yard penalties, I agree, are annoying. But once those start getting flags the players will adjust; they always do.


i'm pretty sure studies have shown that the repeated, low impact hits are more damaging than the less frequent head shots.

So, let's get rid of seatbelts on airplanes because fire poses the bigger threat.


i'm not really arguing. sure, eliminate all head contact (if that's at all possible). i wouldn't be against that. but to protect linemen, who bump skulls in some form like 50 times a game, you'd have to re-invent how to play football.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:39 am

Lets not bring practicality or thought into this.
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Re: NFL

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:42 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Lets not bring practicality or thought into this.


banning head contact is within reason (kinda) when you're talking about open field situations. but you're going to get clocked by both teams in any type of scrum. and i don't believe there's any way to control that.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:43 am

I agree, haven't they basically already done that though? My impression that that has already been done has led to my confusion on what is being discussed here. They could make a rule where you can't drive forward with a bent knee. A rule where the lead leg must always be straight. It would be hard to drive a violent hit to the head under this rule.
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Re: NFL

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:46 am

I too am torn a bit. I have compassion, but as Grunthy stated above I too have a hard time feeling overwhelmingly bad for players NOW. In the early 80s and before... NFL salary was nowhere in comparison to what it is today. I feel bad for THOSE earlier players. Today, like smoking, these players know the risks. ........and rewards. While not everyone is a superstar, there is no denying these athletes make an exuberant amount of cash, even the practice squad players.

I will restate, I feel every bit of bad for the generations of players prior to the last 2-3 decades. These guys today... I want entertained. It can be safer, but in no way do I want flag football. They can make their own choice like big boys and either use that free college ride for their brain and get out or use the their muscles to destroy their brain.
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Re: NFL

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:48 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I agree, haven't they basically already done that though? My impression that that has already been done has led to my confusion on what is being discussed here.


yeah, i also think they've already addressed this. and pretty effectively.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:48 am

Agreed. They know the risks and take them. At the same time, I think its ridiculous that people ever think they're overpaid.
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Re: NFL

Postby canaan on Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:52 am

its the same problem that exists in the NHL, in my opinion. the players, under the guise of better safety, have been given a suit of armor to unleash hell. there is no care for them or others because they feel invincible with the gear they are provided with. combine this with the cutthroat nature of the business side of the sport, and they are left with nowhere to turn. they either fill the gap and deliver a menacing blow with their riddell helm of molded polycarbonate or they will be replaced with somebody who will.
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Re: NFL

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:03 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Agreed. They know the risks and take them. At the same time, I think its ridiculous that people ever think they're overpaid.



I don't think they are over paid. They take a tremendous risk with their bodies. I just don't feel bad for players of this generation with concussion issues. They know the risks and they get paid for it.
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Re: NFL

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:03 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Agreed. They know the risks and take them. At the same time, I think its ridiculous that people ever think they're overpaid.


I don't think they're overpaid. I think they're paid accordingly. The NFL is a huge business. The owners make huge profits. They players SHOULD be rewarded as they're the product. I'm simply stating don't cry about it. Don't want to do it? Don't. No one is forcing your hand. You have a choice with the wealth of knowledge now available on the dangers.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:05 pm

The problem is that after they get brain damage, they forget that they knew the dangers going in. :pop:
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Re: NFL

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:10 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:There is no way that fire poses a bigger threat on an airplane than an injury due to turbulance or a rough landing does. Your argument makes no sense.

Lol, you will interject a contrarian response into anything I say. Relax. It's like nan-Rocco. Well, not quite.

I doubt an accurate assessment of airline dangers is necessary for the analogy's reasoning to apply. (Indeed, you recognized the example attempted to illustrate relative risks.) In other words, "because A presents a bigger risk than B, there's no reason to get rid of B," is not a good argument. Though, I now see Schmenguin wasn't making that argument.

In any event, my original post applauded the NFL amid numerous complaints that it is softening the league and people are just going to blow out each others' knees. Well, that hasn't happened. And regardless, given the evidence of just how detrimental the NFL is to players' heads.
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Re: NFL

Postby Grunthy on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:20 pm

He gave that response because your argument really did not make sense.
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Re: NFL

Postby SolidSnake on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:26 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Lets not bring practicality or thought into this.


banning head contact is within reason (kinda) when you're talking about open field situations. but you're going to get clocked by both teams in any type of scrum. and i don't believe there's any way to control that.

Image
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Re: NFL

Postby Nuge on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:55 pm

canaan wrote:its the same problem that exists in the NHL, in my opinion. the players, under the guise of better safety, have been given a suit of armor to unleash hell. there is no care for them or others because they feel invincible with the gear they are provided with. combine this with the cutthroat nature of the business side of the sport, and they are left with nowhere to turn. they either fill the gap and deliver a menacing blow with their riddell helm of molded polycarbonate or they will be replaced with somebody who will.


Agreed. This, in my opinion, is an equipment issue more than anything else. These guys are basically playing a high speed game in a suit of armor. If the pads were scaled back and helmets soffened, there's no way guys would be flying head first into making plays.
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Re: NFL

Postby mikey287 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:13 pm

Very true in hockey. Excellent points.
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Re: NFL

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:13 pm

Speaking as someone who has been diagnosed with several concussions in my hockey playing days (one quite severe), I have no stomach for what the NFL is doing to the sport of football. Seeing guys get 15 yard personal fouls for hits that do not even come close to being helmet-to-helmet, or because the player getting hit torques his head and his helmet goes goofy... it's just sapping my enjoyment of the sport.

Football is a game of violence. Either own that, or go watch cricket.

canaan wrote:its the same problem that exists in the NHL, in my opinion. the players, under the guise of better safety, have been given a suit of armor to unleash hell.

Every time this discussion comes up I fell compelled to remind the board of the study from the mid-90s that showed - pretty conclusively, as I recall - that the hockey league with the highest incidence of head and neck injuries and stick fouls was the one that mandates full face and head protection and bans fighting: NCAA Div I. Correlation is not causation, of course, by my own anecdotal evidence backs up that finding.

TheHammer24 wrote:In any event, my original post applauded the NFL amid numerous complaints that it is softening the league and people are just going to blow out each others' knees. Well, that hasn't happened.

Ask Dustin Keller if he'd rather have a concussion or his right knee.

The NFL has seen an increase in the number of injuries to players that's up 40% from last year, which is double what it was ten years earlier. Nearly 200 players started 2013 on IR, and about 250 were on IR entering Week 8.

Some of that is heightened awareness about concussions; what used to be reported as a headache and walked off now requires a player to be benched. Players are also quite a bit larger and faster now, which brings about its own set of risks. But the rules changes in recent years have given those bigger and faster players more room to exploit their speed and size, and in turn defenders are now in a position where they either have to go low to make the tackle at the point of contact or make some half-assed attempt to drag a guy down. (That works well when a 6' 190-lb CB is trying to tackle Gronk) And some of that increase is down to the rules governing what teams and players are actually allowed to do in practice and training camp now. The overall fitness of an NFL player in 2013 is on another planet compared to a decade ago, but the 'football fitness' has fallen off dramatically.
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Re: NFL

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:08 pm

theoretically, it's possible that the league is cracking down more and more on steroid use. this, on its own, would cause an increased rate of injury.
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