NFL

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Re: NFL

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:17 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:I would say the evolution is more on that defensive side. I'd say that when the coordinator makes the right defensive call, fewer QB's & receivers are able to beat correct coverage.


I disagree with this very much Troy.


I would say that at least half the QB's in this league need to have the proper play call in order to gain on a defense. There are receivers like Bryant, Johnson, Thomas & Marshall that unconverable one on one, but there are bigger and faster corners coming up that are taking away that advantage.

Guys like Brees and Manning have elite decision making, and rodgers has elite strength and accuracy, but a lot of the stuff guys like Stafford and Eli Manning do is dependent on their recievers, or with someone like Russell Wilson making the right decision on the right play call.

That's just how i see what is necessary from offenses to produce against quality defensive teams.
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Re: NFL

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:25 pm

slappybrown wrote:http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45fgikm/14-pittsburgh-steelers-6/

14th most valuable NFL franchise according to Forbes. Cowboys are worth 3.2 billion.

They recently valued the L.A. Clippers at $575 million. Steve Ballmer just paid $2 billion for the team, roughly $600 million more than the highest valued NBA team (the Lakers, $1.4 billion) in their rankings.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:26 pm

I think offenses are getting better and rather than defenses improving with them, the nfl is doing everything they can to make it harder to play defense.
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Re: NFL

Postby mikey287 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:28 pm

I think with Stafford and Manning, particularly, Manning, you're looking at pretty good ability...if you want to go down the Derek Anderson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles road and say, "well, look, these guys suck, but..." then I think you got my vote.

So the answer is more so that coaching has progressed, or out-progressed QBs, maybe...which I don't think is disagreeable...
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Re: NFL

Postby Rocco on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Troy Loney wrote:is this only for defensive holding? can you imagine if they start wanting to be more strict with offensive holding?


That would cause a drop in scoring. Why would the NFL do something silly like that?
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Re: NFL

Postby Rocco on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:38 pm

columbia wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
columbia wrote:What exactly is the point of doing this?

train defenses to allow more passing yards and more touch downs.


Yeah, I mean, I know why...but do people really think there isn't enough scoring in the NFL?


The NFL thinks there weren't enough flags on downfield contact. They seem to think there isn't enough scoring.
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Re: NFL

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:41 pm

Is it a knee jerk reaction to the strong defense stifling the high powered offense in the superbowl?
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:47 pm

I would say it definitely is. They're "enforcing rules already in place".
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Re: NFL

Postby slappybrown on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:58 pm

@TL -- What are the big innovations on the defensive side in the past 30 years, from a strategic standpoint (NFL only)? Off the top of my head, the spread of the zone blitz, the short-lived 46, and Tampa 2, which is really just the old Steelers playbook from the 70s, and basically works at its best if you happen to have HOF caliber lineman that can get to the passer on their own (eg, Joe Greene or Warren Sapp) and a HOF caliber LB/LBs to run to the ball and clean up (Ham/Lambert or Derrick Brooks), but is otherwise just a safe defense that limits big plays.

The list on the offensive side is enormous.

Even in recent years, the packaging of plays, spread and pistol concepts, and the offenses pushing the tempo more than ever before and on a greater scale than ever before have had a huge impact on the game and what defenses do in response (when Cinci/Buffalo were doing it in the late 80s/early 90s, they were the outliers). Everyone goes 11 now -- one back, one TE, 3 WRs as their base offense.

Those changes are why safeties suddenly become incredibly valuable commodities, for example. Suddenly, your third corner/slot corner is a hugely meaningful position. Its why LBs are devalued right now. Teams are basically in the nickel the majority of the game (I think I read that the average is now 50% nickel, 10% dime, 35% base, and the remaining 5% GL/QTR). All of those are in response to what offenses are doing. The nickel is now the base defense -- that's a crazy development, and its directly in response to what offenses are doing.

I don't see how defenses are driving the innovation.
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Re: NFL

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:08 pm

@slappy

I was talking about the physical abilities that individual defensive players have. Linebackers that can cover wide receivers, defensive lineman that can run with running backs, and safeties that are the size of what linebackers used to be. The speed on the defense that allows for coordinators to cover more ground with the same formations.

But yes, this has been the case for some years, offenses are learning how to gain advantages with no huddle, controlling the pace to prevent defenses from getting the subsitutions they want.
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Re: NFL

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:08 pm

It's very difficult to be innovative on defense because, by definition, it is a reactive state of play. Which is one of the reasons I've taken to liking Seattle and Richard Sherman in particular. They are almost proactive in the way they play defense, and that's very exciting to watch.
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:11 pm

Well I think the rules are making defenses reactive. Look at what they tried to do to James Harrison. The message being sent to him may or may not have been "don't pass rush". The Ravens and Steelers in the last decade were not reactive defenses. The NFL wants it to be truly reactive which is to say that they don't want contact. You could argue that its still a tackle league but every thing they do moves away from contact in every way.
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Re: NFL

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:12 pm

tifosi77 wrote:It's very difficult to be innovative on defense because, by definition, it is a reactive state of play. Which is one of the reasons I've taken to liking Seattle and Richard Sherman in particular. They are almost proactive in the way they play defense, and that's very exciting to watch.


Though if hte NFL is deadset on changing how many defensive holding penalties are called the Seattle defense is going to take a big hit. A lot of their pass defense is predicated on beating up the receivers and grabbing on to them. Despite being a Broncos fan I love watching their defense, but they're in trouble if this preseason is any indication as to how the regular season will be called.
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Re: NFL

Postby slappybrown on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:12 pm

You will both find this interesting, I found the piece I was thinking of that talks about the nickel being the base (and focuses on SEA for its examples to your point tif):

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/13/55036 ... ickel-dime
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Re: NFL

Postby dodint on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:18 pm

If anything, I hope it's a reaction to this: The Seahawks' Grabby Talons which aggravated me when I read it in January. Playing the numbers and brazenly fouling every play knowing the refs can't possibly make every call is unsportsmanlike. It seems like the NFL has responded by swinging the complete other direction, call-it-all.
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Re: NFL

Postby viva la ben on Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:14 pm

This is all about increasing the money fantasy football makes.
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Re: NFL

Postby dodint on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Would you mind connecting the two a little more clearly for me? Sometimes I'm a little slow and I'll admit that one isn't computing for me.
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Re: NFL

Postby viva la ben on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:22 pm

More offense, more stats, more ffl, more money.
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Re: NFL

Postby dodint on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:23 pm

Ok. See, the stats exist regardless of the actual numbers. It's not betting. :P
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Re: NFL

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:24 pm

I don't see how that makes fantasy football make more money.
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Re: NFL

Postby columbia on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:25 pm

It's likely to make me turn off the tv and, thus, make less money for the NFL.
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Re: NFL

Postby newarenanow on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:17 pm

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/no-s ... xam-082014

This is fantastic news. Don't know if posted earlier, but no sign of cancer found in Jim Kelly.
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Re: NFL

Postby dodint on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:18 pm

:thumb:
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Re: NFL

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:14 pm

I saw that earlier. Great news! One of the games good guys.
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Re: NFL

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:36 pm

Mike Carey retired? I'll oddly miss his presence on the field this year.

Spoiler:
Image
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