NBA player comes out

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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby obhave on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:26 pm

columbia wrote:As mentioned earlier (by this poster), the situation possibly helps said young person in the small Alabama town.
This isn't about him; it's about opening up opportunities for others to be themselves.


Yes. This.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:28 pm

I find it surprising that his brother didn't know. When my sister came out to me my response was, "uhhh, duh." And she had this weird grin on her face and hugged me. Maybe they weren't as close as my sister and myself.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby obhave on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:47 pm

count2infinity wrote:I find it surprising that his brother didn't know. When my sister came out to me my response was, "uhhh, duh." And she had this weird grin on her face and hugged me. Maybe they weren't as close as my sister and myself.

It really depends on the family. My brother knew, my sister didn't and I am close with both of them. No matter how close you are with people, when you convince yourself that something is wrong with you and you need to hide a part of yourself, sometimes it is really easy to trick others too.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:00 pm

count2infinity wrote:I find it surprising that his brother didn't know. When my sister came out to me my response was, "uhhh, duh." And she had this weird grin on her face and hugged me. Maybe they weren't as close as my sister and myself.


Twin brother at that
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby MWB on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:20 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:This is kind of what I mean by the whole "courageous" thing. What did people honestly expect was going to happen, he was going to be savaged across the country by the media and the sports world? I can't imagine he honestly thought that bad things were going to happen if he suddenly came out.



I'm guessing he'll face more than his fair share of negative reactions as well, just on a more personal level. It won't be as much as a big time player would, but it will be there. He'll have a lot more people judging him now than he did before.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Tomas on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:21 pm

count2infinity wrote:I find it surprising that his brother didn't know. When my sister came out to me my response was, "uhhh, duh." And she had this weird grin on her face and hugged me. Maybe they weren't as close as my sister and myself.


Read today's ESPN article. It seems Collins must have been in a pretty massive denial himself - he actually lived with some lady (and eventually got engaged) for 8(!) years. No wonder that the brother did not know, IMO.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:22 pm

Tomas wrote:
count2infinity wrote:I find it surprising that his brother didn't know. When my sister came out to me my response was, "uhhh, duh." And she had this weird grin on her face and hugged me. Maybe they weren't as close as my sister and myself.


Read today's ESPN article. It seems Collins must have been in a pretty massive denial himself - he actually lived with some lady (and eventually got engaged) for 8(!) years. No wonder that the brother did not know, IMO.


my sister was previously married for about 5 years... how's that for not knowing yourself?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby redwill on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:24 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I find that "homophobia has been observed in only one species" quote hilarious. As if that can be substantiated in any way.


I would think that it could be substantiated very easily. Ostracism from a societal unit is the greatest punishment possible in any species. Simply observe whether or not homosexual behavior results in ostracism in a given species.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shmenguin on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:26 pm

MWB wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:This is kind of what I mean by the whole "courageous" thing. What did people honestly expect was going to happen, he was going to be savaged across the country by the media and the sports world? I can't imagine he honestly thought that bad things were going to happen if he suddenly came out.



I'm guessing he'll face more than his fair share of negative reactions as well, just on a more personal level. It won't be as much as a big time player would, but it will be there. He'll have a lot more people judging him now than he did before.


we don't really know what the vibe is between collins and the people close to him. personally. i wouldn't really care if i was getting praised by the media if i had alienated the people close to me in the process. and it's unlikely that he's going to experience the same amount of warm and fuzzies around all his old teammates.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby MWB on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:28 pm

I just mean he'll probably get direct backlash from "fans" as well as those in the league; things that won't be all through the media unless he brings it up.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shmenguin on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:29 pm

MWB wrote:I just mean he'll probably get direct backlash from "fans" as well as those in the league; things that won't be all through the media unless he brings it up.


yeah, i was agreeing with you/turning it in a slightly different direction
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:34 pm

redwill wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I find that "homophobia has been observed in only one species" quote hilarious. As if that can be substantiated in any way.


I would think that it could be substantiated very easily. Ostracism from a societal unit is the greatest punishment possible in any species. Simply observe whether or not homosexual behavior results in ostracism in a given species.


What would that prove? Human beings don't get ostracized for exhibiting homosexual behavior.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby redwill on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:38 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:What would that prove? Human beings don't get ostracized for exhibiting homosexual behavior.


HAHA ... ?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:43 pm

Are you laughing because you don't know what ostracize means? Were you one of those kids in middle school who thought it was cool to get bad grades.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:43 pm

redwill wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:What would that prove? Human beings don't get ostracized for exhibiting homosexual behavior.


HAHA ... ?



Yeah redwill, they can still marry someone of the opposite SEX!
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby redwill on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:48 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Are you laughing because you don't know what ostracize means? Were you one of those kids in middle school who thought it was cool to get bad grades.


Woof.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby CBear3 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:24 pm

[Philosophical gymnastics]
MWB said a few pages back,
‘If a person disapproves of how a person naturally is, how they naturally came in to the world, isn’t that a form of bigotry? ‘

There’s a slippery slope there. It’s said replace gays in this discussion with blacks, and it’s case closed. Except I don’t think it is.

Alcoholism is “disease.” It’s not contagious, it’s a genetic malfunction for lack of a better term. You’re born that way. Are we to accept poor or illegal behavior from an Alcoholic because they were born that way?

I’d venture to guess half the serial killers or sociopaths on death row are suffering from a mental illness they were born with. Are we not allowed to disapprove of their behavior?

Yes, those are extreme examples, and don’t for a minute think that I’m providing the answers. I’m simply playing devil’s advocate to the idea that just because you are born a certain way that everybody should hug you and tell you that everything is ok. It’s not that black and white.

[/Philosophical gymnastics]
---------------------------------------------------

My personal experience with homosexuality is through a close friend of my wife’s. I met her after she came out, but her story fascinates me to this day. She was a die-hard Catholic, not a Cafeteria Catholic as they like to say. She didn't pick and choose the aspects of the religion she liked. But she knew by high school that something was different, but refused to accept or act on it. She prayed for answers; she didn't want to have the feelings she did. She felt shame, not that family or friends would disapprove, but that God would. After high school she morphed this guilt into feeling like she was being called to service and joined the convent. As fate would have it, that’s where she met her first official girlfriend. Through all of Jesus’s teachings, a common theme is that He wants us to be happy. Yes, there are rules and teachings of how to lead a Godly life, do’s and don’ts, but the underlying truth of the Bible is that God loves us, and wants us to be happy. Living a lie and being torn apart by her feelings obviously wasn't happiness. Why would God make her this way, make her so she could never experience true happiness? So she obviously left the convent. Now some ten years later, she was married this spring in Massachusetts and couldn't be happier.
As a fellow Catholic, I've never had a harder time deciding what is truly right or wrong after meeting her. In the end I choose to love first and ask questions later. I thank God that she has peace with herself now, and pray that He may bring it to others that are in her situation. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong is a question that I no longer feel like I have the answer to, and won’t be preaching/judging about any time soon.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:32 pm

CBear3 wrote:Now some ten years later, she was married this spring in Massachusetts and couldn't be happier.


Does she live in Northampton? I love visiting there, it's a very artsy community with a thriving LGBT community. (Leans more toward females)
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shmenguin on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:38 pm

CBear3 wrote:[Philosophical gymnastics]
MWB said a few pages back,
‘If a person disapproves of how a person naturally is, how they naturally came in to the world, isn’t that a form of bigotry? ‘

There’s a slippery slope there. It’s said replace gays in this discussion with blacks, and it’s case closed. Except I don’t think it is.

Alcoholism is “disease.” It’s not contagious, it’s a genetic malfunction for lack of a better term. You’re born that way. Are we to accept poor or illegal behavior from an Alcoholic because they were born that way?

I’d venture to guess half the serial killers or sociopaths on death row are suffering from a mental illness they were born with. Are we not allowed to disapprove of their behavior?

Yes, those are extreme examples, and don’t for a minute think that I’m providing the answers. I’m simply playing devil’s advocate to the idea that just because you are born a certain way that everybody should hug you and tell you that everything is ok. It’s not that black and white.

[/Philosophical gymnastics]


i just wrote a post about my beliefs in determinism and how we have no free will and so forth, but then i realized i was over-thinking things and deleted it because it's much more simple than that:

homosexuality is benign. you aren't harming yourself or others. whether or not you can control being an alcoholic or a serial killer, those around you should not accept that lifestyle because of the damage it inflicts on the society that we all share.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby CBear3 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:43 pm

There are people who say that it does impact society, not in direct death and destruction like the other examples, but in other societal impacts. Of course you could probably claim that a lot if the societal impact people claim would be erased by true acceptance of homosexuals.

EPP, actually she lives in the DC area. haven't gotten to talk to her much after she moved out there.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shmenguin on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:48 pm

CBear3 wrote:There are people who say that it does impact society, not in direct death and destruction like the other examples, but in other societal impacts.


i guess it's a matter of opinion, but that is an absurd notion.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby redwill on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:50 pm

A quote from physicist Steven Weinberg: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion."

That's the impression I'm getting from this whole debate.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:
CBear3 wrote:There are people who say that it does impact society, not in direct death and destruction like the other examples, but in other societal impacts.


i guess it's a matter of opinion, but that is an absurd notion.


You may be surprised here shmengin, but I'm going to totally agree with you on this point.

Of course if they throw litter on your lawn, then I think you should call the Westboro Baptist church on them.

Spoiler:
realx, I'm poking fun at myself as much as you
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby MWB on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:
CBear3 wrote:[Philosophical gymnastics]
MWB said a few pages back,
‘If a person disapproves of how a person naturally is, how they naturally came in to the world, isn’t that a form of bigotry? ‘

There’s a slippery slope there. It’s said replace gays in this discussion with blacks, and it’s case closed. Except I don’t think it is.

Alcoholism is “disease.” It’s not contagious, it’s a genetic malfunction for lack of a better term. You’re born that way. Are we to accept poor or illegal behavior from an Alcoholic because they were born that way?

I’d venture to guess half the serial killers or sociopaths on death row are suffering from a mental illness they were born with. Are we not allowed to disapprove of their behavior?

Yes, those are extreme examples, and don’t for a minute think that I’m providing the answers. I’m simply playing devil’s advocate to the idea that just because you are born a certain way that everybody should hug you and tell you that everything is ok. It’s not that black and white.

[/Philosophical gymnastics]


i just wrote a post about my beliefs in determinism and how we have no free will and so forth, but then i realized i was over-thinking things and deleted it because it's much more simple than that:

homosexuality is benign. you aren't harming yourself or others. whether or not you can control being an alcoholic or a serial killer, those around you should not accept that lifestyle because of the damage it inflicts on the society that we all share.


:thumb:
That's what I was going to post.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby CBear3 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:58 pm

shmenguin wrote:
CBear3 wrote:There are people who say that it does impact society, not in direct death and destruction like the other examples, but in other societal impacts.

i guess it's a matter of opinion, but that is an absurd notion.

personally I laugh when people talk about its effect on the sanctity of straight marriage, or on the traditional family unit. Those same people aren't persecuting those with multiple failed marriages which you'd think by that logic would be more detrimental than two loving people spending their lives together regardless of their genders
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