NBA player comes out

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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:03 pm

Nobody should give a crap with this NBA guys preference is either, certainly not enough to be front page news on CNN. What an insult to actual news.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby stopper40 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:05 pm

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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:13 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:Nobody should give a crap with this NBA guys preference is either, certainly not enough to be front page news on CNN. What an insult to actual news.


with that mindset, no one should give a crap about Jackie Robinson either. While there are no rules outlawing gays from playing, but there is a very large amount of discomfort amongst a still shockingly large portion of the population toward the LGBT community.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:14 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:The NBA is the most modern of any of the 4 major American sports leagues.


When it comes to views on human sexuality, etc, the NBA is probably the most primitive, by far, of any of the 4 major sports leagues. There is an extremely strong homophobic bent among people with urban upbringings, which comprises a majority of this league. Combine that with a general lack of higher education, understanding, etc, and NBA players tend to be much more vocally hostile towards gay men.

Hell, even Chris Broussard, ESPN's main NBA reporter, came out strongly on Outside the Lines against it. It generally boils down to either a machismo factor or religious belief. I don't think Broussard said anything wrong at all, mind you (and expressed his beliefs far better than peabrain Wallace).
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:18 pm

shafnutz05 wrote: I don't think Broussard said anything wrong at all.



"As a Christian, I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin," said Broussard. "There are a lot of Christians in the NBA, and just because they don't agree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant."

Not sure what else Broussard wants to be called then. And he sure as hell isn't the representative of all Christians, a lot of whom will probably disagree with him on this.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:23 pm

Gaucho wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote: I don't think Broussard said anything wrong at all.



"As a Christian, I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin," said Broussard. "There are a lot of Christians in the NBA, and just because they don't agree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant."

Not sure what else Broussard wants to be called then. And he sure as hell isn't the representative of all Christians, a lot of whom will probably disagree with him on this.


I should be more clear. I didn't think he sounded homophobic or anything like that, I merely think he was stating his religious belief. Sure, not all Christians will agree with him, that goes without saying.

Compare his relatively well-spoken reaction to Mike Wallace's "DAMN MAN THERE ARE ALL THESE HOTTIES WHY DO MEN WANT TO KISS MEN" or Tim Hardaway flat-out saying he hates gay people.

Regardless, my point about the NBA still stands. Happ about this player coming out (and good for him), but that will be the last sports league to embrace homosexuality in the locker room. Mark my words.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:29 pm

I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:35 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote: I don't think Broussard said anything wrong at all.



"As a Christian, I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin," said Broussard. "There are a lot of Christians in the NBA, and just because they don't agree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant."

Not sure what else Broussard wants to be called then. And he sure as hell isn't the representative of all Christians, a lot of whom will probably disagree with him on this.


I should be more clear. I didn't think he sounded homophobic or anything like that, I merely think he was stating his religious belief. Sure, not all Christians will agree with him, that goes without saying.

Compare his relatively well-spoken reaction to Mike Wallace's "DAMN MAN THERE ARE ALL THESE HOTTIES WHY DO MEN WANT TO KISS MEN" or Tim Hardaway flat-out saying he hates gay people.

Regardless, my point about the NBA still stands. Happ about this player coming out (and good for him), but that will be the last sports league to embrace homosexuality in the locker room. Mark my words.


Ok, I see what you mean, but the fact is that his religious belief is homophobic in itself.

As far as the locker room culture goes, you are probably right. Good on Kobe to be among the first to congratulate Williams.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:36 pm

count2infinity wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.


Fine. But he'll just have to accept being called bigoted and intolerant.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:44 pm

Gaucho wrote:
count2infinity wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.


Fine. But he'll just have to accept being called bigoted and intolerant.


Without trying to start a big tiff, isn't it just as intolerant to chastise someone over their religious beliefs, regardless if they are considered "in tune" with modern society?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:49 pm

... I probably could have worded that differently, but hopefully the point is still understandable.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
count2infinity wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.


Fine. But he'll just have to accept being called bigoted and intolerant.


Without trying to start a big tiff, isn't it just as intolerant to chastise someone over their religious beliefs, regardless if they are considered "in tune" with modern society?


I'm just saying he can't have it both ways. If he persists on his right to stand by his archaic, antiquated and homophobic beliefs, he'll have to accept that others exercise their right to call him bigoted and intolerant.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby ulf on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:54 pm

Some of the "tolerant" people are ironically the least tolerant of the people I know :pop:
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:57 pm

If this is directed at me, I never claimed to tolerate racism, homophobia, sexism, and whatever. And for the record, I don't believe society should either.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby ulf on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:58 pm

General observation while the topic was at hand.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:59 pm

Gaucho wrote:If this is directed at me, I never claimed to tolerate racism, homophobia, sexism, and whatever. And for the record, I don't believe society should either.


Can you believe homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of your god yet still love and associate yourself with homosexuals? Can you hold your religious belief that it is wrong but still enjoy a BBQ at your friend's house, who is openly gay (and is aware of your beliefs?).

I'm just saying, I think it is a little more gray than you are making it out to be. It's one thing to be a Westboro Baptist Church member, it's another to have your own personal beliefs yet still be accepting of others. You know the two aren't mutually exclusive, right?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:03 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Can you believe homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of your god yet still love and associate yourself with homosexuals? Can you hold your religious belief that it is wrong but still enjoy a BBQ at your friend's house, who is openly gay (and is aware of your beliefs?).

To use his own professed belief against him:
God wrote:Judge not, lest you be judged
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:07 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
I'm just saying, I think it is a little more gray than you are making it out to be. It's one thing to be a Westboro Baptist Church member, it's another to have your own personal beliefs yet still be accepting of others. You know the two aren't mutually exclusive, right?


Why yes, of course. By all means. But as I said, I draw the line at racism, homophobia, etc. I don't need and I don't want to accept these things.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:10 pm

Gaucho wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
count2infinity wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.


Fine. But he'll just have to accept being called bigoted and intolerant.


Without trying to start a big tiff, isn't it just as intolerant to chastise someone over their religious beliefs, regardless if they are considered "in tune" with modern society?


I'm just saying he can't have it both ways. If he persists on his right to stand by his archaic, antiquated and homophobic beliefs, he'll have to accept that others exercise their right to call him bigoted and intolerant.


So on your side it's okay to believe what you want as long as it's in line with your beliefs? I mean, he's entitled to his beliefs without criticism. That's the whole point of being able to believe what you want to believe. You're afforded the right to believe what you want, but so are others. Regardless of those beliefs, as long as you aren't infringing on the rights of others. You can call him a bigot if you want, but I don't see him as a bigot for his beliefs, I just see it as his beliefs.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:19 pm

count2infinity wrote:You can call him a bigot if you want, but I don't see him as a bigot for his beliefs, I just see it as his beliefs.

So it's OK to discriminate if an imaginary guy in the sky says so?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby count2infinity on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:23 pm

I don't see him suggesting he shouldn't play basketball, nor do I see him discriminating the guy in anyway. He's just saying that he doesn't agree with the lifestyle. I love how easily people turn to calling them bigots because they don't agree with the lifestyle. I don't know how else to say this, so I'll put it in caps to see if that helps... IT'S OKAY TO DISAGREE WITH A LIFESTYLE, BUT IT'S NOT OKAY TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THAT LIFESTYLE FROM OCCURRING AS LONG AS IT'S NOT HURTING SOMEONE ELSE. did that help to try to get my point across? no? then I give up.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:23 pm

count2infinity wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
count2infinity wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Broussard saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle or homosexual at all. It's okay not to agree with it, but there is still the necessity to understand that they have the freedom to live that way.


Fine. But he'll just have to accept being called bigoted and intolerant.


Without trying to start a big tiff, isn't it just as intolerant to chastise someone over their religious beliefs, regardless if they are considered "in tune" with modern society?


I'm just saying he can't have it both ways. If he persists on his right to stand by his archaic, antiquated and homophobic beliefs, he'll have to accept that others exercise their right to call him bigoted and intolerant.


So on your side it's okay to believe what you want as long as it's in line with your beliefs? I mean, he's entitled to his beliefs without criticism. That's the whole point of being able to believe what you want to believe. You're afforded the right to believe what you want, but so are others. Regardless of those beliefs, as long as you aren't infringing on the rights of others. You can call him a bigot if you want, but I don't see him as a bigot for his beliefs, I just see it as his beliefs.


I don't really see where the disagreement is.
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Rocco on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:25 pm

Gaucho wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:
I'm just saying, I think it is a little more gray than you are making it out to be. It's one thing to be a Westboro Baptist Church member, it's another to have your own personal beliefs yet still be accepting of others. You know the two aren't mutually exclusive, right?


Why yes, of course. By all means. But as I said, I draw the line at racism, homophobia, etc. I don't need and I don't want to accept these things.


Is it possible to hold a different viewpoint without it being considered hate? Or can I say that someone who believes in abortion is bigoted against the unborn?
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Rocco on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:28 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Can you believe homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of your god yet still love and associate yourself with homosexuals? Can you hold your religious belief that it is wrong but still enjoy a BBQ at your friend's house, who is openly gay (and is aware of your beliefs?).

To use his own professed belief against him:
God wrote:Judge not, lest you be judged


Sure, though the line after that is "go forth and sin no more."
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Re: NBA player comes out

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:32 pm

count2infinity wrote:I don't see him suggesting he shouldn't play basketball, nor do I see him discriminating the guy in anyway. He's just saying that he doesn't agree with the lifestyle. I love how easily people turn to calling them bigots because they don't agree with the lifestyle. I don't know how else to say this, so I'll put it in caps to see if that helps... IT'S OKAY TO DISAGREE WITH A LIFESTYLE, BUT IT'S NOT OKAY TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THAT LIFESTYLE FROM OCCURRING AS LONG AS IT'S NOT HURTING SOMEONE ELSE. did that help to try to get my point across? no? then I give up.

I can agree with that, c2i. I think the problem is that religious belief has so often in the past been used to legitimatize oppression and outright murder of those that didn't share the same 'beliefs'. For him to judge Collins a 'sinner' in a public forum IMO opens him up to the critcism he is receiving.
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