British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Gaucho on Thu May 23, 2013 7:54 am

doublem wrote:
bhaw wrote:This is the NHR equivalent of the Sutter thread.

This is why I stopped getting involved with doublem. Everything can be rationalized by immoral American government.


just the things that the U.S. gov't does that is immoral.


Doing immoral things does not justify doing immoral things.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby count2infinity on Thu May 23, 2013 7:59 am

Gaucho wrote:
doublem wrote:
bhaw wrote:This is the NHR equivalent of the Sutter thread.

This is why I stopped getting involved with doublem. Everything can be rationalized by immoral American government.


just the things that the U.S. gov't does that is immoral.


Doing immoral things does not justify doing immoral things.


And there is the biggest problem. They do not see these things as being immoral. They are righteous and fully justified for their actions because of a freaking book.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby yubb on Thu May 23, 2013 8:33 am

The brazenness of the attack, along with the fact that the men waited some 30 minutes for police to arrive without trying to flee, seemed to indicate they wanted to publicize their message.


Uhhh... it took police 30 minutes to get on the scene?
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby newarenanow on Thu May 23, 2013 8:53 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
llipgh2 wrote:Suspects are not dead. Are hopitalized and under heavy security in an undisclosed hospital.

Latest article:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/world/europe/london-attack/index.html


I KNEW IT RYLAN! I KNEW IT!!!


Rylan would be a perfect hire for CNN.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby llipgh2 on Thu May 23, 2013 9:53 am

yubb wrote:
The brazenness of the attack, along with the fact that the men waited some 30 minutes for police to arrive without trying to flee, seemed to indicate they wanted to publicize their message.


Uhhh... it took police 30 minutes to get on the scene?


From what I read, they had to wait for a armed unit to be deployed. British police apparently still don't carry guns. So a special unit had to be sent to the scene.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Rylan on Thu May 23, 2013 10:08 am

newarenanow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:
llipgh2 wrote:Suspects are not dead. Are hopitalized and under heavy security in an undisclosed hospital.

Latest article:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/world/europe/london-attack/index.html


I KNEW IT RYLAN! I KNEW IT!!!


Rylan would be a perfect hire for CNN.


My sources were bloody terrible. Blame them not me. :lol:
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby tifosi77 on Thu May 23, 2013 12:51 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:I don't disagree that American involvement in the M.E. has caused increased hostility, but your view that any act committed in the name of Islam is justified is flat out wrong.

There's an enormous difference between explaining something and justifying it with the same data set.

yubb wrote:
The brazenness of the attack, along with the fact that the men waited some 30 minutes for police to arrive without trying to flee, seemed to indicate they wanted to publicize their message.


Uhhh... it took police 30 minutes to get on the scene?

Yeah I heard that on the news this morning and couldn't believe it.

Apparently some middle-aged lady got off the bus to help when she saw the guy laying on the street, found he had been decapitated, and then engaged the two suspects in.... a..... debate. These guys were still wielding various kitchen implements and were covered in the dead man's blood. And this lady was calmly asking them what they hoped to achieve.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby newarenanow on Thu May 23, 2013 1:04 pm

I think these guys did this because they didn't like the news that you had to be on the internet at all times with the new Xbox. I blame Microsoft.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby GaryRissling on Thu May 23, 2013 2:09 pm

If anyone is brave enough to challenge themselves regarding the mindset of the Islamic community, I would suggest reading up on the life of Anwar Alawki. Here's a guy who was born to academic, non-radical parents in New Mexico, became a moderate imam, encouraged his congregation to vote for Bush in 2000, was outspoken in his admonishment of the 9/11 attacks and became the voice of moderate Islam across nearly all political talk shows, and was even invited to be a guest at State Dept luncheon. How did he go from there to a supporter of jihad in a few short years? If you're willing to ask yourself that, you might develop a more nuanced perspective into our foreign policy and its resulting effects.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby doublem on Thu May 23, 2013 4:23 pm

dropping bombs makes people unhappy.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Sarcastic on Thu May 23, 2013 4:29 pm

And yet we keep doing it like the world belonged to us.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby mac5155 on Thu May 23, 2013 4:45 pm

Care to add some quality discussion, or you just going to keep trolling?
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Kaizer on Thu May 23, 2013 4:57 pm

what would we do if another country had a drone in our airspace, and pulled a missile strike on the marathon bombers next to an orange julius outside boston before they were able to do their thing, killing them and 10 others. that country would justify it by saying the tsarnaevs were terrorists, which is about all we explain after our own adventures. the 10 others? sorry, but we had to get those two, and this was the best opportunity. then, that country would tell us that they declined to answer for the civillian casualties in any way.

by the way, this has nothing to do with london.
Last edited by Kaizer on Thu May 23, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby doublem on Thu May 23, 2013 4:59 pm

me? I've added more quality discussion than anyone else. Western foreign policy lead by the U.S. has created more attacks like this than bin laden could ever dream of. will some radical Muslims always hate the U.S., sure but that's part of religion and nationalism. just read what this guy said, it's clear. I can post it again.for the most part Americans overall have never had a "war" on their on soil.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby GaryRissling on Thu May 23, 2013 5:08 pm

Actually, that would be a comparatively scrupulous use of drones. When we launch "signature strikes" we have no idea who we're taking out; just that they are people who could be enemies based often on nothing more than appearances.

But back to London, someone said that they weren't aware of British Muslims being persecuted. As Britain doesn't have habeus corpus statutes, they can hold people without charge for an indeterminent amount of time... They used this frequently against suspected IRA associates over the years. And they've done it to the Muslim community since 9-11, rounding up and holding hundreds of innocents for every Muslim actually charged.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu May 23, 2013 5:16 pm

I'm getting more irritated that you pretend like I am completely ignorant about U.S. foreign policy. I fully understand its effects on radicalizing Muslims and angering the Arab world. My argument is that it doesn't justify two BRITISH Muslims that were BORN in Britain to slaughter an innocent man to death.

Maybe tomorrow, I will kill an African-American because Christians are being persecuted by Africans throughout much of Islamic Africa. See how much sense that makes?

Most people (especially on this board) are FULLY aware what effect our foreign policy has.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby count2infinity on Thu May 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Shad...you don't understand. The reason they did this is because of what the USA does. Get that through your head. Have you never listened to Ron Paul's explanation of blow back? You just don't understand.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby columbia on Thu May 23, 2013 5:21 pm

To be fair, shad *is* a Ron Paul supporter.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 23, 2013 5:21 pm

Everything is the USA's fault.

At least, that's what doublem wants us to believe, I think.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby columbia on Thu May 23, 2013 5:26 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Everything is the USA's fault.

At least, that's what doublem wants us to believe, I think.


Ron Paul will aslo have you believe that...which is why I'm a little confused by the vehemence of this discussion.
Some of his strongest supporters here seem to be forgetting that.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Shyster on Thu May 23, 2013 5:27 pm

I support both sides here, to a degree. Our imperialist/interventionist/neocon foreign policy has us meddling in parts of the world where we have no business being whatsoever. For example, our President responded to the Sandy Hook shootings by repeatedly stating that if something can be done to “save one child’s life,” we should do it. If you’re in a place like Pakistan or Yemen—where U.S. drone strikes have killed or maimed far more children than died in Connecticut—how could you not be infuriated by that? The United States cares about its own children. Your children are just “collateral damage.”

On the other hand, I am highly suspect of Islam, and I think the West should be much more circumspect in dealing with Islamic immigrants. The religion appears to be amenable to violence to an extent that other religions abandoned centuries ago, and I oppose any religion on principle that also claims the right to control secular life or be the basis of the legal and judicial system. That is nothing more than a sort of religious fascism. I have no problems with someone practicing Islam or any other religion, but I also expect that person to adhere to Western cultural and legal traditions like the free press, freedom of speech, and the separation of church and state. It is neither legal nor reasonable for Muslims living in the West to demand a heckler’s veto over anything that offends the religious sensibilities of the most sensitive among them.
Last edited by Shyster on Fri May 24, 2013 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Sarcastic on Thu May 23, 2013 5:30 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:I'm getting more irritated that you pretend like I am completely ignorant about U.S. foreign policy. I fully understand its effects on radicalizing Muslims and angering the Arab world. My argument is that it doesn't justify two BRITISH Muslims that were BORN in Britain to slaughter an innocent man to death.

Maybe tomorrow, I will kill an African-American because Christians are being persecuted by Africans throughout much of Islamic Africa. See how much sense that makes?

Most people (especially on this board) are FULLY aware what effect our foreign policy has.


It doesn't justify it, of course. But it explains it. And there is no argument. I think the two sides here are tackling the same point just from the opposite end.
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu May 23, 2013 5:32 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:I'm getting more irritated that you pretend like I am completely ignorant about U.S. foreign policy. I fully understand its effects on radicalizing Muslims and angering the Arab world. My argument is that it doesn't justify two BRITISH Muslims that were BORN in Britain to slaughter an innocent man to death.

Maybe tomorrow, I will kill an African-American because Christians are being persecuted by Africans throughout much of Islamic Africa. See how much sense that makes?

Most people (especially on this board) are FULLY aware what effect our foreign policy has.


It doesn't justify it, of course. But it explains it. And there is no argument. I think the two sides here are tackling the same point just from the opposite end.


I don't think they are. MM seems to think this killing is ok because of US foreign policy
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby Sarcastic on Thu May 23, 2013 5:33 pm

columbia wrote:To be fair, shad *is* a Ron Paul supporter.


Are there really any staunch Ron Paul supporters anymore?
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Re: British soldier hacked to death - on a London street

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 23, 2013 5:33 pm

columbia wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Everything is the USA's fault.

At least, that's what doublem wants us to believe, I think.


Ron Paul will aslo have you believe that...which is why I'm a little confused by the vehemence of this discussion.
Some of his strongest supporters here seem to be forgetting that.


But what does US FoPo have to do with people killed in Britain?
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