Selling A House on Your Own

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Selling A House on Your Own

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:05 pm

I've done this three times now, no real estate agent needed. Saved a ton of money on closing costs too, for both the buyer and for myself. Granted, I've been teaching economics for 12 years, so I'd like to think I've got a little more knowledge than the lay person, but they have the forms at Staples that you can buy to assist you. Removing these costs is so easy, and the extra money can be used to improve your new home and increase the value and equity in it.

I strongly encourage anyone who is selling to consider doing this on your own. Building positive equity and increasing your home value is a HUGE step towards a happy and early retirement.
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:08 pm

How much money do you save exactly? In my situation it is a 45 minute drive from my new house to my old house, so I'm not sure I want to show the house myself all the time.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,718
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:16 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:How much money do you save exactly? In my situation it is a 45 minute drive from my new house to my old house, so I'm not sure I want to show the house myself all the time.


Well, if you find a lender who does not require things like surveys and home inspectors, that saves a grand, possibly more. The real estate agent gets 6% commission, so there's another chunk saved. But in my case, I live in the house while I'm selling it, so it's easy for me to show it to potential buyers. Otherwise you'd have to schedule all of your showings on the same day to reduce the driving.
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:17 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:How much money do you save exactly? In my situation it is a 45 minute drive from my new house to my old house, so I'm not sure I want to show the house myself all the time.


in my experience selling my deceased aunt's house, the selling realtor rarely showed the house, it was other realtors that contacted her and showed it themselves.
mac5155
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,051
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: governor of Fayettenam

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:33 pm

mac5155 wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:How much money do you save exactly? In my situation it is a 45 minute drive from my new house to my old house, so I'm not sure I want to show the house myself all the time.


in my experience selling my deceased aunt's house, the selling realtor rarely showed the house, it was other realtors that contacted her and showed it themselves.


But if a buyer's agent shows the house, then they take their commission from the seller anyway or else their clients can't buy the house.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,718
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:33 pm

Also what do you do for advertising the house? Agents have that stupid MLS thing that is king it seems.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,718
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:54 pm

There's craigslist and other sites like that, which are gaining popularity for selling homes. Some buyers specifically look for homes that are "for sale by owner" to avoid the extra costs.
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:17 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:There's craigslist and other sites like that, which are gaining popularity for selling homes. Some buyers specifically look for homes that are "for sale by owner" to avoid the extra costs.


Need to have admin create a LGP Buy/Sell/Trade subforum haha.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,718
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:22 pm

Redfin.com is the best real estate site/app that I know of. They have a FSBO filter in their search criteria; that's so prospective buyers can weed those properties out of their results. Because I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would want to enter into a six-figure property contract with someone who wasn't professionally represented.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,922
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:26 pm

Real Estate agents are a total ripoff. We just sold our house and bought a new one, and I deeply regret hiring an agent.

To sell our house, she hired someone to come out and take pictures, she put the pictures up on the multi-list, and had one open house. Granted, the house sold in 2 weeks, but she did nothing to warrant the 6% commission (3% to her, and 3% to the buyers agent). I could have saved almost $9K if I would have sold by owner.
cheesesteakwithegg
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,593
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:53 am

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby pittsoccer33 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:44 pm

It would seem to me that it would harder to buy a home that is for sale by owner, as in harder to get financing.

Yay or Nay?
pittsoccer33
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,508
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby pfim on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:48 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:It would seem to me that it would harder to buy a home that is for sale by owner, as in harder to get financing.

Yay or Nay?


I have no experience selling my home myself, but I can't see why. The onus is on the buyer to provide the documentation for financing, with the costs of appraisal, inspection, title search etc all the responsibility of the buyer. That really has nothing to do with the seller of the home. Just throwing it out there, I don't really know.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:50 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Redfin.com is the best real estate site/app that I know of. They have a FSBO filter in their search criteria; that's so prospective buyers can weed those properties out of their results. Because I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would want to enter into a six-figure property contract with someone who wasn't professionally represented.


looks like they service about 1/100th of the country as well.
mac5155
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,051
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: governor of Fayettenam

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:20 pm

cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Real Estate agents are a total ripoff. We just sold our house and bought a new one, and I deeply regret hiring an agent.

To sell our house, she hired someone to come out and take pictures, she put the pictures up on the multi-list, and had one open house. Granted, the house sold in 2 weeks, but she did nothing to warrant the 6% commission (3% to her, and 3% to the buyers agent). I could have saved almost $9K if I would have sold by owner.


It really is astonishing how much money is actually saved. Looking back, taking the time and effort to sell it yourself would have been well worth $9K. Well, next time you'll know, and you'll save thousands of dollars.
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:01 pm

Reading about this, found an article about the founder of ForSaleByOwner.com using a real estate agent after his million-dollar FSBO sat unsold for six months.....

pfim wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:It would seem to me that it would harder to buy a home that is for sale by owner, as in harder to get financing.

Yay or Nay?


I have no experience selling my home myself, but I can't see why. The onus is on the buyer to provide the documentation for financing, with the costs of appraisal, inspection, title search etc all the responsibility of the buyer. That really has nothing to do with the seller of the home. Just throwing it out there, I don't really know.

Some banks, particularly the larger ones, simply won't finance a FSBO purchase. Or they will flag them for much higher scrutiny than normal (like two appraisals, or an appraisal review by the bank). Then again, there are other mortgage writers who cater to them.

Many agents steer their customers away from FSBOs, or refuse to show them at all. (Thus limiting your potential market) The reasons are many, but primarily focus on the commission issue. Since there is no listing agreement with a real estate agent, there is no existing obligation by the seller to pay the buyer's agent commission. This means that the buyer agent will have to negotiate this before an offer is ever submitted.... and if the seller refuses to pay the commission, then the buyer has to. And that's kind of an effed up thing to expect the buyer to pay. There are also insurance and licensure issues that have to be attended to, which means the buyer's agent ends up doing double the diligence work (for both sides of the transaction) for the same commission.

And let's not forget the big one: I don't do real estate for a living and have limited expertise in the field. In a state like CA where the disclosure requirements are..... vast..... I can't imagine trying to navigate that process without someone who knows what they're doing on both sides of the transaction. We bought one house in 2010 and sold it in 2012 and bought another house later in 2012; just in that period of time, there were something like two dozen changes made to the stupid documents we had to review and sign/initial. And for the last purchase, I think we had something like 260 pieces of paper to go over, and that's not including the financial docs. Get just one line of one of those pieces of paper wrong, and you've opened yourself up to liability.

To me, that's worth 2.5%-3% of the purchase price.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,922
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby ulf on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 pm

yeah I'd pay the extra couple percent. it's like paying for a good accountant or lawyer.. just one of the times I wouldn't go cheap.
ulf
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,176
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:41 pm

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby pfim on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:59 am

tifosi77 wrote:Some banks, particularly the larger ones, simply won't finance a FSBO purchase. Or they will flag them for much higher scrutiny than normal (like two appraisals, or an appraisal review by the bank). Then again, there are other mortgage writers who cater to them.

Many agents steer their customers away from FSBOs, or refuse to show them at all. (Thus limiting your potential market) The reasons are many, but primarily focus on the commission issue. Since there is no listing agreement with a real estate agent, there is no existing obligation by the seller to pay the buyer's agent commission. This means that the buyer agent will have to negotiate this before an offer is ever submitted.... and if the seller refuses to pay the commission, then the buyer has to. And that's kind of an effed up thing to expect the buyer to pay. There are also insurance and licensure issues that have to be attended to, which means the buyer's agent ends up doing double the diligence work (for both sides of the transaction) for the same commission.

And let's not forget the big one: I don't do real estate for a living and have limited expertise in the field. In a state like CA where the disclosure requirements are..... vast..... I can't imagine trying to navigate that process without someone who knows what they're doing on both sides of the transaction. We bought one house in 2010 and sold it in 2012 and bought another house later in 2012; just in that period of time, there were something like two dozen changes made to the stupid documents we had to review and sign/initial. And for the last purchase, I think we had something like 260 pieces of paper to go over, and that's not including the financial docs. Get just one line of one of those pieces of paper wrong, and you've opened yourself up to liability.

To me, that's worth 2.5%-3% of the purchase price.


I'm not sure why that's messed up, I never really understood why the seller pays the buyer's agent fee.

Certainly there is a lot of work that goes into these listings and transactions, I don't doubt that. It's much more time consuming and difficult than just listing the property on the internet and showing it, there certainly is a reason why these people have jobs. But man, 6% of my home value is a lot of coin.

To the last paragraph, you can hire an attorney for a fraction of that 6%.

I don't know that I'd sell my house by myself, but it's certainly something I'll look into if I ever do sell my house.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby skullman80 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:04 am

cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Real Estate agents are a total ripoff. We just sold our house and bought a new one, and I deeply regret hiring an agent.

To sell our house, she hired someone to come out and take pictures, she put the pictures up on the multi-list, and had one open house. Granted, the house sold in 2 weeks, but she did nothing to warrant the 6% commission (3% to her, and 3% to the buyers agent). I could have saved almost $9K if I would have sold by owner.


Would your house have sold in 2 weeks if you would have done all the work yourself? Pictures, MSL(can you even do that yourself), open house etc....
skullman80
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,712
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: New Kensington, PA

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:28 am

pfim wrote:I'm not sure why that's messed up, I never really understood why the seller pays the buyer's agent fee.

Certainly there is a lot of work that goes into these listings and transactions, I don't doubt that. It's much more time consuming and difficult than just listing the property on the internet and showing it, there certainly is a reason why these people have jobs. But man, 6% of my home value is a lot of coin.

To the last paragraph, you can hire an attorney for a fraction of that 6%.

I don't know that I'd sell my house by myself, but it's certainly something I'll look into if I ever do sell my house.

Well, I mean, technically speaking you could say the buyer pays all the fees because they're deducted from the agreed selling price. (In the same way that consumers are really the people who pay corporate taxes, because those are factored into the company's sales prices of its goods and services.) But the money comes out of the equity of the house, so if you sell for $450,000 (a little below the median price in my ZIP), the commission would be $27,000, leaving the seller with a net of $423,000 after closing. And, generally, that $27k will be split 50/50 between the listing and buying brokerages who then pay the actual agents who represented the transaction.

But it's appropriate that the seller be responsible for those things because, frankly, it would be silly otherwise. Imagine going to the store and buying an Avengers iPhone cover, and at checkout being told there's a $1 surcharge being added to your purchase to cover the royalty to Marvel. Now, like the corporate tax point above, you can easily argue that this is already factored into the price of the phone cover, so in reality you the consumer is paying the royalty indirectly.

Also, don't forget that 6% is the aggregate commission for both agents. And you can hire an attorney for a fraction of that.... but the attorney isn't going to market the house, isn't going to do your open houses, has no real knowledge of the market or trends, can't list your property on the MLS, etc. Because if you expect an attorney to do all of those things, well, it's probably going to cost you a fair bit more than 3% of the selling price in the long run. (If an attorney actually would do all that)

The only way I'd ever consider selling a house on my own is in a raging seller's market. Actually, let me take that back. I'd never sell a house on my own.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,922
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby pfim on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:08 am

No the attorney won't do all of that and I would never expect one to. But if you're concerned about disclosure etc then hiring an attorney makes sense. I certainly wouldn't enter into any contract without an attorney's opinion.

The buyer pays for the inspection, the title fees, the appraisal etc. So certainly there are charges beyond the price of the house, I'm not sure why the buyer's agent fee is any different. Perhaps I'd get 3% less for my house, but somehow I doubt it. Perhaps I'm just jaded from my buyer agent experience, who I thought was fairly useless. It's not as if I couldn't find the listing, set up the appointments and negotiate the price.

At any rate, the theme I think is that it is much more difficult than some think, but if you want to put in the time and effort to learn, then it's worth it.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:28 pm

The inspection and appraisal are entirely different, tho. That's due diligence on the part of the consumer, and they are necessary and interrelated components for securing financing. And it makes sense for the buyer to pay the title fees because the deed and title are being transferred to the buyer at the close of the transaction. (Altho the seller does pay a portion of the title in CA)

The variance on difference in final selling price between FSBO and agent sales is largely regional. Some places there's not much if any measurable difference, in other places the difference is 15% or more (in favor of the agent sales). I haven't found any region where FSBOs garner higher selling prices on average. I've seen one report that showed (nationally) the average FSBO sale was $150,000, while the average agent-assisted sale was $215,000. Now, that's a huge disparity... but the report was from the National Association of Realtors (so not exactly unbiased), and I don't think it's fair to lump all sales into a pool for this purpose, nor does it paint an accurate picture.

Regardless, as soon as you cross a 3% difference in favor of the agent-represented sales, you've defeated the purpose of doing a FSBO.
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,922
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby AlexPKeaton on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:23 am

The appraisal process is the biggest scam since people started selling water in bottles. A coworker's appraisal, $100 more than purchase price. My appraisal, $500 more than purchase price (and I am paying more than the original asking price due to a big seller's assist). Just a giant scam.
AlexPKeaton
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,718
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am
Location: Malkinite Compound

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:35 pm

I've never heard of an appraisal coming in over the agreed purchase price. Under, sure. But over? There's just no reason for that. Especially when you're talking about a fraction of a percent of the total value. That's just utterly stupid.

Were you given a reason for the appraisals being over price?
tifosi77
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,922
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby PensHckyFan79 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:58 pm

I am in the processing of buying a house, close on the 26th, and the house was appraised 2k over our accepted offer, to me that seems like a win, I'm paying less for a more expensive house? why are you guys complaining about it?
PensHckyFan79
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:12 pm
Location: H-burg

Re: Selling A House on Your Own

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:02 pm

I don't really think it matters, but yes, the appraisal should just be confirmation of the purchase price. I mean, the house is worth what the price is (barring collusion), not what some other third party thinks it should be.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Next

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gabe and 5 guests


e-mail