A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby largegarlic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm

This sort of debate is what made Breaking Bad so awesome--it forces us to question all sorts of assumptions about morality and what it means to be a good person.

I think it's pretty hard (but maybe not impossible) to argue that Walt was a good person by conventional moral standards. I think what people respond to positively in his character is his refusal to accept his life as it was at the start (underpaid working-class schlub, who is disrespected at home and work) and single-minded determination to turn himself into someone who commanded respect and to become a legend. He's a success and perhaps a hero by Nietzschean standards, but a failure and a monster by conventional moral standards.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:06 pm

Staggy wrote:Walt directly ruined Hank and Marie's lives. Even if he didn't end up getting Hank killed, he would have at the very least got him fired and likely exhiled from any law enforcement agency. I can understand not viewing Jesse sympathetically but I don't get calling Hank selfish. He butchered just about every aspect of his investigation but I think he was always doing it for the right reasons.


I totally disagree. What did Hank in was Hank's ego. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:08 pm

largegarlic wrote:This sort of debate is what made Breaking Bad so awesome--it forces us to question all sorts of assumptions about morality and what it means to be a good person.


:thumb:
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Crankshaft on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:12 pm

Sarcastic wrote:he certainly wasn't some bloody criminal who did things for pleasure.


He didn't start out as that, but that's what he became.

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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Staggy on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:19 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Staggy wrote:Walt directly ruined Hank and Marie's lives. Even if he didn't end up getting Hank killed, he would have at the very least got him fired and likely exhiled from any law enforcement agency. I can understand not viewing Jesse sympathetically but I don't get calling Hank selfish. He butchered just about every aspect of his investigation but I think he was always doing it for the right reasons.


I totally disagree. What did Hank in was Hank's ego. Nothing more, nothing less.


Walt was directly or indirectly involved in getting him crippled, convincing him his wife was critically injured, having a car crash full speed into an already crippled Hank's side of the car, killing 10 of his witnesses on his big break case, and then involved him further in his crimes by giving Hank over a 100K of drug money. Whenever the Walt being Heisenberg news would have broke, Hank would have been immediately fired and ostracized by his peers. These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's way more.

With how much Walt permanently ****ed up Hank's life, I just don't think Hank going to extreme measures to arrest him can be considered selfish.

I agree with the other comment though, the multitude of reasonable viewpoints people can have on BB is one of the reasons it's so great.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Staggy wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
Staggy wrote:Walt directly ruined Hank and Marie's lives. Even if he didn't end up getting Hank killed, he would have at the very least got him fired and likely exhiled from any law enforcement agency. I can understand not viewing Jesse sympathetically but I don't get calling Hank selfish. He butchered just about every aspect of his investigation but I think he was always doing it for the right reasons.


I totally disagree. What did Hank in was Hank's ego. Nothing more, nothing less.


Walt was directly or indirectly involved in getting him crippled, convincing him his wife was critically injured, having a car crash full speed into an already crippled Hank's side of the car, killing 10 of his witnesses on his big break case, and then involved him further in his crimes by giving Hank over a 100K of drug money. Whenever the Walt being Heisenberg news would have broke, Hank would have been immediately fired and ostracized by his peers. These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's way more.

With how much Walt permanently ****ed up Hank's life, I just don't think Hank going to extreme measures to arrest him can be considered selfish.

I agree with the other comment though, the multitude of reasonable viewpoints people can have on BB is one of the reasons it's so great.


Indirectly. You don't really feel Walt intended that. Walt did best he could and paid for Hank's substantial medical bills. Even in the end, when Hank was about to be killed by those Nazis, Walt's love for Hank was apparent, as he begged for his life even if he'd have to go to prison. How can you not see the difference between the two of them?

We're going to have to disagree. IMO, Hank ended up how he did because he became obsessed with the case so much it even overtook any love he had for Walt. I really don't care about what the case did to Hank's standing at his work. He could have moved onto something else or retired. Hank's character was selfish. Hank's ego grew bigger than any love he had for his brother in law. I can't find any respect for that, sorry.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby pressure=9Pa on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:25 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:He was like a God figure. Absolutely. Smarter than everyone else. And the further it went, the bigger he got. I am not saying he was an angelic savior. He clearly got ruthless when he felt he had to, but I always found sympathy for him because I think things he did were out of necessity. I don't recall him killing some of those people you mention. If you could refresh my mind.

Walt - by direct action or influence - was responsible for 198 deaths in two years covered by the show's universe.

He was no more a hero than Michael Corleone.


That 198 includes 167 in the season two plane crash, where his reposnsibility is loose at best. Also Hector's death would be at most assisted suicide if you're trying to finger Walt.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Staggy wrote:Walt directly ruined Hank and Marie's lives. Even if he didn't end up getting Hank killed, he would have at the very least got him fired and likely exhiled from any law enforcement agency. I can understand not viewing Jesse sympathetically but I don't get calling Hank selfish. He butchered just about every aspect of his investigation but I think he was always doing it for the right reasons.


I totally disagree. What did Hank in was Hank's ego. Nothing more, nothing less.


I find it somewhat humorous you can post this after defending everything Walt did...
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

count2infinity wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
Staggy wrote:Walt directly ruined Hank and Marie's lives. Even if he didn't end up getting Hank killed, he would have at the very least got him fired and likely exhiled from any law enforcement agency. I can understand not viewing Jesse sympathetically but I don't get calling Hank selfish. He butchered just about every aspect of his investigation but I think he was always doing it for the right reasons.


I totally disagree. What did Hank in was Hank's ego. Nothing more, nothing less.


I find it somewhat humorous you can post this after defending everything Walt did...


I don't think it was Walt's ego that took him down in the end. It played a part in growing his business, but it was the 3 people in his life who should have had his back and didn't. Look at his wife and how she treated him. Told him she wished he died. Cheated on him with some guy. Walt's treatment of Skyler was a whole lot better than her's toward him. The thing with Jesse had nothing to do with any ego. Jesse went crazy and wanted revenge for some reason. Walt's ego had a limit, too. He offered his life to save Hank. Hank wanted to destroy Walt completely, without as much as a conversation or an explanation.

The more I think about how Walt was treated in the end by people close to him, the more I feel for him.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:20 pm

Hm. I don't... hm. Oh well.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby the wicked child on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:24 pm

All I will say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said Sarcastic.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Yes. And I think so do the authors. One of the last episodes is called Ozymandias, after all. I don't think Hank is Ozymandias.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:20 pm

the wicked child wrote:All I will say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said Sarcastic.


That's totally fine. I have no problem with differing opinions.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:27 pm

Gaucho wrote:Yes. And I think so do the authors. One of the last episodes is called Ozymandias, after all. I don't think Hank is Ozymandias.


You're probably right on that. With the ending the gave him and how they tried to make him look. I still disagree with that and feel it was a mistake. I don't like how the show ended. I do think there is a divide between me and the authors on where they took his character. Not only his, but the others' as well. I looked past that and saw that they've tried to change all of those people too much from when she show started. I really liked Skyler and Jesse and Hank in the beginning. What exactly happened for me to begin to dislike them so much? Does that mean that I didn't like the direction the show eventually took? I think so.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:28 am

Sarcastic wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Yes. And I think so do the authors. One of the last episodes is called Ozymandias, after all. I don't think Hank is Ozymandias.


You're probably right on that. With the ending the gave him and how they tried to make him look. I still disagree with that and feel it was a mistake. I don't like how the show ended. I do think there is a divide between me and the authors on where they took his character. Not only his, but the others' as well. I looked past that and saw that they've tried to change all of those people too much from when she show started. I really liked Skyler and Jesse and Hank in the beginning. What exactly happened for me to begin to dislike them so much? Does that mean that I didn't like the direction the show eventually took? I think so.


That's fine, because you're certainly not obliged to agree with the authors or their (assumed) intentions.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:26 am

the wicked child wrote:All I will say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said Sarcastic.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Crankshaft on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:55 am

count2infinity wrote:
the wicked child wrote:All I will say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said Sarcastic.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:57 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
count2infinity wrote:
the wicked child wrote:All I will say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said Sarcastic.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby blackjack68 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:41 pm

AMC announces a Breaking Bad marathon starting August 10th with all episodes.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/01/break ... f93770ec3d
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:02 pm

Since this thread was just bumped, http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/01/better-call-saul-will-take-place-before-during-and-after-breaking-bad/.

'Better Call Saul' will take place before, during, and after 'Breaking Bad'
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:20 pm

I'm already starting to get a not so good feeling about this spinoff. Not a fan of the above idea, or the idea of Walt appearing in it
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:21 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:I'm already starting to get a not so good feeling about this spinoff. Not a fan of the above idea, or the idea of Walt appearing in it


I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. Doing a spinoff about Mike pre-Gus and then up to the point of meeting Walt is a much better spinoff.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:34 pm

I actually felt Mike was the most interesting character in the whole series.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby DudeMan2766 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:38 pm

I'd love to get the story of Mike as a cop in Philly and what all he did to get dismissed. He was probably corrupt as hell
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:45 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I actually felt Mike was the most interesting character in the whole series.


really?
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