A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Dickie Dunn on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:51 am

Staggy wrote:A question I'm genuinely curious about; what the hell kind of place did the Nazis live at? A fenced-in, barb wired location with 24 hour video surveillance. Also an on site meth lab and probably ~100 million dollars on hand. It looked like there was a main street and several houses/buildings, which makes sense since there was about 8 people living on the site. What did people driving by think this place was?


I had assumed it was out in the middle of the desert where no one would ever really drive by.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:52 am

Area 51?
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:04 am

count2infinity wrote:Probably not... I've already expressed my dislike for someone taking a pretty minor detail and calling it a plot hole.


The funny thing is its not even a plot hole. Nobody knows what happens with Jesse. It's just an open ended ending with plenty of questions. The DEA has the evidence and the killers of the agents, the known/admitted kingpin, everything Skyler/Marie said. They know nothing more than Jesse was a cook.

The viewer can decide what happens and how far they take it vs Jesse. But it's hardly a plot hole. It's just not an "ending". He drove away, nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
count2infinity wrote:Probably not... I've already expressed my dislike for someone taking a pretty minor detail and calling it a plot hole.


The funny thing is its not even a plot hole. Nobody knows what happens with Jesse. It's just an open ended ending with plenty of questions. The DEA has the evidence and the killers of the agents, the known/admitted kingpin, everything Skyler/Marie said. They know nothing more than Jesse was a cook.

The viewer can decide what happens and how far they take it vs Jesse. But it's hardly a plot hole. It's just not an "ending". He drove away, nothing more, nothing less.


in the context of my original statement - it's a plot hole. if you go back, you'll see i was responding to the premise that gilligan was presenting a "sunshine and rainbows" future for jesse. that isn't part of the reality he created where consequence exists and as far as the authorities know, jesse was the last person to see hank alive.

this isn't for c2i, since we've established that he doesn't bend on this, but a plot hole is something that defies the reality established in the fiction. so harry potter being a wizard isn't a plot hole. it's just unrealistic in our world. now a "plot hole" happens when we see harry potter use a time machine to solve all his problems in the 3rd movie - and then NEVER USES IT AGAIN, even though it would solve his much larger problems later on. that's the difference. so in breaking bad, the show is about cause and effect, consequence, reactions, tying up loose ends, etc. but jesse just goes on his merry way? not in this world's reality. not how it's been set up over 60 episodes.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby the wicked child on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:20 am

Lol, I hardly think c2i is the only one who doesn't bend here. ;)
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:21 am

Yeah, Jesse doesn't get away in the world set up by Gilligan.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:23 am

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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:24 am

so are we approaching the "it's just a TV show, it doesn't have to make sense" post?
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:25 am

the wicked child wrote:Lol, I hardly think c2i is the only one who doesn't bend here. ;)


It'd be too big of a plot hole to bend, given the reality I've established in the fiction. :scared: :scared: :scared:
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:28 am

shmenguin wrote:so are we approaching the "it's just a TV show, it doesn't have to make sense" post?


It wouldn't be so bad, but nothing was in the show to say that Jesse was going to go on and live a happy life. That's just what I've chosen to believe, you've obviously chosen not to see it that way. The show didn't have a "plot hole" in that particular sense because it doesn't really lead you to believe one way or another how Jesse is going to move on from here. He drives away smiling and happy... wouldn't you if you were made slave to nazis for a few months and just got released knowing they're all dead as is Walt, a guy that has severely effed up your life for the better portion of two years?
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby the wicked child on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:32 am

I don't really get the argument here... Jesse's fate was left intentionally vague... so if you think he got caught up the road... you could be right. If you think he took Brock and moved to Alaska... you could be right. If you think he went home and OD'd... you could be right.

I'm personally fine with leaving it that way... obviously not everyone is, but I fail to see how that makes it a "plot hole".
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:33 am

aaaand once again for the 3rd time...i'm responding to the idea that gilligan wrote a happy ending for jesse. something i believe he alluded to on "talking bad". if it's supposed to be ambiguous, you're right - it's a non-issue. but i don't believe that's the case.

shmenguin wrote:gilligan wants it to be sunshine and rainbows for him

shmenguin wrote:if you go back, you'll see i was responding to the premise that gilligan was presenting a "sunshine and rainbows" future for jesse
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:34 am

I wouldn't even say he was smiling and happy. He just escaped living hell and had a huge rush of adrenaline and excitement. We don't know what happens next. There is no plot hole.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:43 am

so essentially the argument boils down to me saying you can believe what you want to believe at the ending for Jesse, and you saying, no you can't believe what you want, you have to believe what I believe... but I'm the guy that won't bend.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:48 am

so i guess we can cap this off with this...

Vince Gilligan wrote:We always felt like the viewers desired Jesse to get away. And it’s up to the individual viewer to decide what happens next for Jesse. Some people might think, ‘Well, he probably got two miles down the road before the cops nailed him.’ But I prefer to believe that he got away, and he’s got a long road to recovery ahead, in a sense of being held prisoner in a dungeon for the last six months and being beaten to within an inch of his life and watching Andrea be shot. All these terrible things he’s witnessed are going to scar him as well, but the romantic in me wants to believe that he gets away with it and moves to Alaska and has a peaceful life communing with nature.


i originally heard that he said the 2nd half of this quote - but didn't know about the first half. so IT IS meant to be ambiguous, but at the same time, the guy who writes the story is telling us what he believes happens. that's a bit of a paradox, but whatever. i can accept that we don't know what happens and it is possible he gets busted or goes mental or somehow has a semblance of a real life. so with that said, there is no plot hole. but had gilligan only said, "he gets away with it and moves to Alaska and has a peaceful life communing with nature"...then that's harry potter sitting on a time machine.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:49 am

count2infinity wrote:so essentially the argument boils down to me saying you can believe what you want to believe at the ending for Jesse, and you saying, no you can't believe what you want, you have to believe what I believe... but I'm the guy that won't bend.


sure. if that's what you want to take away, go ahead.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby the wicked child on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:55 am

What he wants to believe does not equal what happens. The reality is that we don't know. Obviously, that is a problem for you... Not so much for others.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:04 am

the wicked child wrote:What he wants to believe does not equal what happens. The reality is that we don't know. Obviously, that is a problem for you... Not so much for others.


good grief. i was responding to the notion that gilligan plainly told us what happened. i looked into it more, and that's not what he said (see above). oops. so it was ambiguous. and i can accept that. i don't love the ambiguity. i think it's a bit of a cop out. but i also acknowledge that it's not a plot hole.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Gaucho on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:14 am

I think the ambiguity makes sense, but that probably is a matter of personal preference.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby count2infinity on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:15 am

shmenguin wrote:so i guess we can cap this off with this...

Vince Gilligan wrote:We always felt like the viewers desired Jesse to get away. And it’s up to the individual viewer to decide what happens next for Jesse. Some people might think, ‘Well, he probably got two miles down the road before the cops nailed him.’ But I prefer to believe that he got away, and he’s got a long road to recovery ahead, in a sense of being held prisoner in a dungeon for the last six months and being beaten to within an inch of his life and watching Andrea be shot. All these terrible things he’s witnessed are going to scar him as well, but the romantic in me wants to believe that he gets away with it and moves to Alaska and has a peaceful life communing with nature.


i originally heard that he said the 2nd half of this quote - but didn't know about the first half. so IT IS meant to be ambiguous, but at the same time, the guy who writes the story is telling us what he believes happens. that's a bit of a paradox, but whatever. i can accept that we don't know what happens and it is possible he gets busted or goes mental or somehow has a semblance of a real life. so with that said, there is no plot hole. but had gilligan only said, "he gets away with it and moves to Alaska and has a peaceful life communing with nature"...then that's harry potter sitting on a time machine.


well...there ya go. argument over.

Spoiler:
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:24 am

shmenguin wrote:
the wicked child wrote:What he wants to believe does not equal what happens. The reality is that we don't know. Obviously, that is a problem for you... Not so much for others.


good grief. i was responding to the notion that gilligan plainly told us what happened. i looked into it more, and that's not what he said (see above). oops. so it was ambiguous. and i can accept that. i don't love the ambiguity. i think it's a bit of a cop out. but i also acknowledge that it's not a plot hole.


Gilligan saying "I like to think" is a huge cop out on his part. You left it open to interpretation, that was your intent. You either left it up to interpretation or you have something in mind, not both.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby the riddler on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:26 am

Minor detail I picked up after watching the episode again. Jesse left his fingerprints on the gun that Walt used to kill Uncle Jack. I don't think it was a strategy by Walt to get Jesse caught but that puts him at the Nazi compound. I'm sure Jesse's prints are in the system.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:34 am

His prints are all over the meth lab too. Jesse is/will be wanted by the DEA. I'm sure surveillance footage will be confiscated from the compound and they will find out that Jesse was held as a slave. That may or may not be enough to get him his freedom but it's good enough for me.
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby shmenguin on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:36 am

so the DEA will find out that jesse has been cooking the world's supply of blue meth for the last 6 months. good luck with that freedom thing. prisoner or not, he's being hunted by the feds
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Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:39 pm

I also think it's safe to assume he doesn't have a stash of money hidden somewhere since he threw 5mil out the window already. He's broke and he's tide to one of the largest meth rings in the world. Unfortunately I don't think there is a happy ending for him as far as his freedom is concerned. Maybe a decent lawyer and a sympathetic jury get him off. I think the important thing is that Jesse has begun to heal emotionally. It will be a long road for him but I think we are given hope that he can live the rest of his life. Before his release I think he would have taken suicide as his best option.
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