This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scare me

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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby IanMoran on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:27 pm

mac5155 wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:PHEAA is coming after me for debts that I paid off years ago. Currently trying to find out how I deal with this, because they've hit me with an employer wage garnish.

count2infinity wrote:Unfortunately there are a lot of people with large amounts of debt that are making half of the 60-70K you're mentioning. That's tough to make it through.

The average starting salary for a fresh college grad is ~$45k. The average salary overall for those with college degrees is <$60k. That's not a lot of change or upward mobility.

For every marketer or civil engineer who jumps into six figures pretty quickly, there are going to be x number of art history or philosophy majors that turn into professional kiosk managers.


Which is why colleges should consider dropping those programs to be the good "educational" citizen. Not saying that the world doesnt need those, but it needs to be a more strict process. Everyone makes a big deal out of predatory mortgage lending but I am starting to think it's truly criminal giving a 17 year old a student loan for a major that doesn't have a job market...

Agree. The employment statistics schools put out too are so misleading as well.

Its just almost impossible for someone to say no to... I mean, who here would want their child or future child to go to onto college?

That's how all of America feels
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:28 pm

Factorial wrote:How does it compare to Pitt/PSU?

Just some anecdotal background...... my freshman year was 1991, and at that time PSU was the least expensive public university in the country for in-state tuition. About ten years ago, they became the most expensive and just this year they were surpassed.... by Pitt. (In fact, there are five PSU campuses in the top 15 most expensive by in-state tuition; U Park and all four of the four-year campuses - Altoona, Reading, Erie and Harrisburg)

When I was in high school I applied to three schools; University of Miami, American University, PSU (in order of preference). I was offered admission to all three, but neither UM or AU could offer anything useful in terms of housing. So I ended up going to PSU simply because it was the most affordable. Adjusted for today's tuition costs, I think it would have been cheaper (overall) for me to go to AU.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:28 pm

I honestly think she should consider declaring bankruptcy. Contrary to popular belief you can do it in certain cases.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby IanMoran on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:29 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Ah, no. Colleges shouldn't drop the programs. Loan companies should legitmately underwrite education loans instead of handing $60K blank checks to 18 years olds to go party for 4 years.

Maybe I'm a hippy (and I know in reality social mobility is very limited anyways), but I'd like to think who goes to college should be determined by merit... not how much $ your parents make.

The amount of kids going to college could really be cut in half.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:33 pm

IanMoran wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Ah, no. Colleges shouldn't drop the programs. Loan companies should legitmately underwrite education loans instead of handing $60K blank checks to 18 years olds to go party for 4 years.

Maybe I'm a hippy (and I know in reality social mobility is very limited anyways), but I'd like to think who goes to college should be determined by merit... not how much $ your parents make.

The amount of kids going to college could really be cut in half.



Right, a loan company should be willing to give a kid majoring in software engineering at CMU $100K. They should not be willing to give someone that much money to go into history. Simple as that, force kids to make smart economic decisions.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:35 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
IanMoran wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Ah, no. Colleges shouldn't drop the programs. Loan companies should legitmately underwrite education loans instead of handing $60K blank checks to 18 years olds to go party for 4 years.

Maybe I'm a hippy (and I know in reality social mobility is very limited anyways), but I'd like to think who goes to college should be determined by merit... not how much $ your parents make.

The amount of kids going to college could really be cut in half.



Right, a loan company should be willing to give a kid majoring in software engineering at CMU $100K. They should not be willing to give someone that much money to go into history. Simple as that, force kids to make smart economic decisions.


But "you can be whatever you want to be".. It's ingrained in our heads in pre-school. If we want to be a professional history buff, we can.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:36 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:I honestly think she should consider declaring bankruptcy. Contrary to popular belief you can do it in certain cases.

The only exception I'm aware of for this is 'undue hardship', which basically requires that you prove to the bankruptcy court that you're more or less destitute, and will likely remain that way for the foreseeable future. You also have to have made a good faith effort at repayment.

Under Ch 7 bankruptcy, you basically get a 7-year deferment on the debt. Under Ch 13, you still pay the debt, but at a reduced monthly amount. (I don't think the overall debt is reduced, just the amount you pay monthly)
Last edited by tifosi77 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:37 pm

so then everyone goes to software engineering, there arent enough positions to fill, said software engineers work in said mall kiosks while the history professor demand decreases and their salaries jump to 3x baseline as they cant fill the positions all the old crumb bums were in before they died off
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:37 pm

I've been tossing around the idea of going back to school, trade school actually so I can start my own business. But I'm figuring I'll do it at my own pace and pay as I go.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:38 pm

Cost/spending is a legitimate issue, but so is the "everyone must go to college" mentality. I know I've railed on this before, but it's sickening to see so many people get herded into college and end up with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt. Then, shocker, they fail to have any success searching for a job in the real world because, quite frankly, they aren't cut out for a professional career. The problem is, guidance counselors are terrified of pointing these kids towards trade schools or other alternatives because they could probably get sued or something.

And don't get me started on the countless people that go after Fine Arts degrees and end up working at Starbucks forever. I got a degree in a political science....did I think I would end up working in that field? No, not really, but it was kind of a dream. However, I quickly realized it was just that, a dream, and took the job I still have 7 years later.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby shmenguin on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:38 pm

my wife teaches in a prestigious school district, has a masters degree, went to a high quality undergrad school, excels in her field...and after her loans, makes the equivalent of about $35k a year in gross income. and she paid for grad school in cash, so those are just undergrad loans.

it's not really intended to be a sob story. teaching, for her, is a labor of love. and this was a series of conscious decisions on her part. so we don't expect or ask for loan forgiveness. but it's a good example of how certain jobs are going to be repellant because the cost of attaining the mandatory education isn't inline with the pay of the profession.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby columbia on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:38 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
IanMoran wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Ah, no. Colleges shouldn't drop the programs. Loan companies should legitmately underwrite education loans instead of handing $60K blank checks to 18 years olds to go party for 4 years.

Maybe I'm a hippy (and I know in reality social mobility is very limited anyways), but I'd like to think who goes to college should be determined by merit... not how much $ your parents make.

The amount of kids going to college could really be cut in half.



Right, a loan company should be willing to give a kid majoring in software engineering at CMU $100K. They should not be willing to give someone that much money to go into history. Simple as that, force kids to make smart economic decisions.


I majored in history at CMU and have - at times, but hopefully not in the future - made my living writing software. :pop: :)
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Factorial on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:38 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:I honestly think she should consider declaring bankruptcy. Contrary to popular belief you can do it in certain cases.

The only exception I'm aware of for this is 'undue hardship', which basically requires that you prove to the bankruptcy court that you're more or less destitute, and will likely remain that way for the foreseeable future. You also have to have made a good faith effort at repayment.

Under Ch 7 bankruptcy, you basically get a 7-year deferment on the debt. Under Ch 13, you still pay the debt, but at a reduced monthly amount. (I don't think the overall debt is reduced, just the amount you pay monthly)


Does that go for private student loans as well (which the op's gf has)? Or just fed backed ones?
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:42 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Factorial wrote:How does it compare to Pitt/PSU?

Just some anecdotal background...... my freshman year was 1991, and at that time PSU was the least expensive public university in the country for in-state tuition. About ten years ago, they became the most expensive and just this year they were surpassed.... by Pitt. (In fact, there are five PSU campuses in the top 15 most expensive by in-state tuition; U Park and all four of the four-year campuses - Altoona, Reading, Erie and Harrisburg)

When I was in high school I applied to three schools; University of Miami, American University, PSU (in order of preference). I was offered admission to all three, but neither UM or AU could offer anything useful in terms of housing. So I ended up going to PSU simply because it was the most affordable. Adjusted for today's tuition costs, I think it would have been cheaper (overall) for me to go to AU.


Per year:
It was $11,600 when I was a Freshman 2006/07
12,300 Sophomore
13,000 Junior
$13,600 2009/10

It is now $16,100

so, $2,000 increase in just 4 years. Plus they just raped you on the academic fees too, increasing those 3x as much. Luckily they had a student body that fought against them.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:43 pm

If you can show the money wasn't spent on a qualified educational expense.

I think the large tattoo on her ribcage helps make that point :face:
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:45 pm

Which brings up a whole other point - student housing. We lived in a ****hole apartment and each (4 of us) paid $400 a month, which was one of the cheapest places. Some places are charging 2k a month for a 3 BR hotel room.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:46 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:so then everyone goes to software engineering, there arent enough positions to fill, said software engineers work in said mall kiosks while the history professor demand decreases and their salaries jump to 3x baseline as they cant fill the positions all the old crumb bums were in before they died off



Are you saying that economic realities should be seperated from these decisions? Obviously that was a gross oversimplification, you understand that right, or would you like me to be more thorough?
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:47 pm

I kind of felt bad when I made my little sister cry over changing her major from Speech and Communication disorders to business, but I think she's starting to realize why.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby count2infinity on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:48 pm

mac5155 wrote:I kind of felt bad when I made my little sister cry over changing her major from Speech and Communication disorders to business, but I think she's starting to realize why.


what? not sure I understand...
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby meow on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:49 pm

I thank God every day for my scholarship. I can't imagine having that sort of student debt.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:49 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
Letang Is The Truth wrote:so then everyone goes to software engineering, there arent enough positions to fill, said software engineers work in said mall kiosks while the history professor demand decreases and their salaries jump to 3x baseline as they cant fill the positions all the old crumb bums were in before they died off



Are you saying that economic realities should be seperated from these decisions? Obviously that was a gross oversimplification, you understand that right, or would you like me to be more thorough?


yes i am. a 17 year old kid should not make a decision based on their life long profession based on potential loan monies available
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby mac5155 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:50 pm

count2infinity wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I kind of felt bad when I made my little sister cry over changing her major from Speech and Communication disorders to business, but I think she's starting to realize why.


what? not sure I understand...


She changed from comm disorders to business. She's now trying to find a position with a business degree (7th semester) and not having much luck. I felt she'd have a better chance with the comm disorders degree.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:51 pm

mac5155 wrote:I kind of felt bad when I made my little sister cry over changing her major from Speech and Communication disorders to business, but I think she's starting to realize why.


what is the attraction to speech language path? aside from accounting and finance, i know countless people in SLP. i dont get it
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:51 pm

A business degree is just fine if you interview well and are willing to go into an entry-level position somewhere. My wife graduated with a double major in government and business and is doing quite well for herself now. If you have the professional moxie to back it up, you can get into an entry-level job just about anywhere.
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Re: This student loan debt crisis thingy is starting to scar

Postby count2infinity on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:52 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:A business degree is just fine if you interview well and are willing to go into an entry-level position somewhere. My wife graduated with a double major in government and business and is doing quite well for herself now. If you have the professional moxie to back it up, you can get into an entry-level job just about anywhere.


that's really with any degree though. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you get a job.
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