So you're a fast food manager/owner

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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:50 am

EPP, you are basically impossible to discuss this issue with. You cherry pick the benefits of the guinness argument to condescend on the people who take the fiat currency as a given current state of affairs. To me, they are two completely different discussions, you basically swim back and forth so that no firm point can be stated.

My opinion, Guinness is right. The FED policies benefit the banks and the extremely wealthy. They control the show. But I can't imagine a situation that would get us to the correct currency environment that wouldn't lead to a 1930's style depression. Which would likely lead to some serious chaos and serious destruction to life as we know it.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:54 am

At one point or another, we all succumb to it. Like flies to a bug-zapper.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby columbia on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:25 am

Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby npv708 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:41 am

columbia wrote:Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/


This is a really interesting concept. Unfortunately, one thing that article didn't mention is that in DC, the city council did pass an $11/hr minimum wage, but it was vetoed by Mayor Gray, because Walmart, which will have 3 stores in the DC area (first one just opened this week) threatened to stop production on all stores if it passed.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:49 am

npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/


This is a really interesting concept. Unfortunately, one thing that article didn't mention is that in DC, the city council did pass an $11/hr minimum wage, but it was vetoed by Mayor Gray, because Walmart, which will have 3 stores in the DC area (first one just opened this week) threatened to stop production on all stores if it passed.


I don't understand how walmart can have that much power. Maybe I'm naive, but couldn't the mayor have just said, "Fine, go somewhere else then..." DC is huge. Even at $11/hr, Walmart stands to make a killing in that area just based on the number of people that live there.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby npv708 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:03 am

count2infinity wrote:
npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/


This is a really interesting concept. Unfortunately, one thing that article didn't mention is that in DC, the city council did pass an $11/hr minimum wage, but it was vetoed by Mayor Gray, because Walmart, which will have 3 stores in the DC area (first one just opened this week) threatened to stop production on all stores if it passed.


I don't understand how walmart can have that much power. Maybe I'm naive, but couldn't the mayor have just said, "Fine, go somewhere else then..." DC is huge. Even at $11/hr, Walmart stands to make a killing in that area just based on the number of people that live there.


It was very much a Catch-22 for Gray. The bill was aimed at large retailers, but 3 Walmarts in the District meant one thing, a ton of jobs for a city that has pushed out a lot of lower-wage jobs in the past. So he could choose to let Walmart build in DC and create 1000+ jobs or he could approve the bill and have higher wages without the jobs. I think the ideal plan for Gray is to let Walmart open the 3 stores, then try to get a living wage bill through.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:49 am

Troy Loney wrote:EPP, you are basically impossible to discuss this issue with. You cherry pick the benefits of the guinness argument to condescend on the people who take the fiat currency as a given current state of affairs. To me, they are two completely different discussions, you basically swim back and forth so that no firm point can be stated.


Can you provide examples? Or are you just generalizing?


It's indisputable that "fiat currency (is) a given current state of affairs". I can't argue that. What I take exception to is Factorials representation that that's something that is beyond reproach. It's not, as Guiness points out, it's only been that way for 42 years. A fraction of history.

I do conceed that in times where capital formation evaporates (1929, 2008) a currency that's fixed (like the Gold Standard) poses special challenges. The Quantitative Easing (QE) of 2008, while far from perfect, did keep the credit markets from imploding. That would not have been possible under the Gold Standard.

There is a school of thought that says that the pain would have been severe, but that the correction and "Unintended consequencies" would have been lessened (a quicker recovery) in a Gold Standard based system - That's an intelllectual exercise though, we'll never truely know because there's no way to know for sure.

I also take exception to statements like the following:

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:

But Buffet's hypocrisy is hilarious. You overlook his slash and burn at Heinz because he gives to charity. To tie it back to this thread, some would argue that not only should he have not cut those jobs, he should have made sure everyone was at least making a "living" wage. He can afford it, right?


King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
You are missing my point. Warren Buffet does great things. He isn't responsible for anyone.


Which is it?

Anyone who takes pot shots at Buffett as KStG87 did, for cutting jobs at Heinz, doesn't understand economics. Buffett knows how to run businesses effeciently and effectively. I can't remember the last time Bershire Hathaway bought a business and ended up closing the doors. They buy companies and grow them. That's how they've made billions. Growing companies creates jobs (in the long term), it doesn't eliminate them. Sure, there might be temporary pain as inefficient businesses are reorganized, but that's basic economics. Better to cut off the limb and save the patient than to save the limb and let the infection spread until the patient dies.

Buffett plays by the existing tax law. But when he realizes that it favors him unfairly, he openly advocates for changing it to his detriment. That's anything but hypocrytical. Especially when you consider that he takes the difference in tax money (and MUCH MUCH MUCH more) and uses it for philanthropic purposes.

I take a lot of pot shots on here because people don;t want to address these specific issues, they'd rather do "drive-bys" than to address the actual issues.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:52 am

I wonder why the political thread was closed.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:55 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:I take a lot of pot shots on here because people don;t want to address these specific issues, they'd rather do "drive-bys" than to address the actual issues.


Kind of a chicken or the egg situation. Do people do "drive-byes" because they don't want to argue/discuss things with someone that is taking pot shots at them or do you give out pot shots because people won't discuss/argue things with you?
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:02 pm

count2infinity wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:I take a lot of pot shots on here because people don;t want to address these specific issues, they'd rather do "drive-bys" than to address the actual issues.


Kind of a chicken or the egg situation. Do people do "drive-byes" because they don't want to argue/discuss things with someone that is taking pot shots at them or do you give out pot shots because people won't discuss/argue things with you?


That's what you took from my post?

Not the discussion about the Gold Standard and credit formation.

Not the discussion about buying companies and making them more efficient to facillitate job growth?

Not the part about tax reform and advocating for a better system while pursuing philanthropic efforts?

Just that last sentence huh? OK.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:05 pm

count2infinity wrote:At one point or another, we all succumb to it. Like flies to a bug-zapper.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:09 pm

see? that sort of what I'm talking about. rather than looking at the way you post so aggressively and calming yourself down to rational discussion, you decide to post something like that. I don't think that there's any doubt here that you've done your reading and you know what you're talking about, but to try to hold a discussion with you about such things is a bit ridiculous as you fly off the handle so easily and get upset when they don't read your posts correctly while also getting upset because you don't read theirs correctly. I have no interest in discussing such things with you mostly because of these types of pot shots you tend to take. As you can see above, I had no problem posting in NPV's direction with a question because i knew he wouldn't take it out of context, he wouldn't try to make me look stupid, he wouldn't puff out his chest and give a post like the one you just did. If you want people to have a calm rational discussion with you, you need to be calm and rational.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:15 pm

count2infinity wrote:
npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/


This is a really interesting concept. Unfortunately, one thing that article didn't mention is that in DC, the city council did pass an $11/hr minimum wage, but it was vetoed by Mayor Gray, because Walmart, which will have 3 stores in the DC area (first one just opened this week) threatened to stop production on all stores if it passed.


I don't understand how walmart can have that much power. Maybe I'm naive, but couldn't the mayor have just said, "Fine, go somewhere else then..." DC is huge. Even at $11/hr, Walmart stands to make a killing in that area just based on the number of people that live there.


You are missing significant piece of info with DC.

The rule that DC city council passed was a minimum wage of $12.50 an hour. But there was a catch....it only applied to retail stores with 75,000 square feet and revenues over $1 billion or more. So it was taylor made for big box stores such as wally world.

Its straight out of the simpsons episode when they film radioactive man in springfield and quimby tries to milk every penny out of the production crew for filiming in town.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:19 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
count2infinity wrote:
npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:Why Every City Needs Its Own Minimum Wage
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... wage/7801/


This is a really interesting concept. Unfortunately, one thing that article didn't mention is that in DC, the city council did pass an $11/hr minimum wage, but it was vetoed by Mayor Gray, because Walmart, which will have 3 stores in the DC area (first one just opened this week) threatened to stop production on all stores if it passed.


I don't understand how walmart can have that much power. Maybe I'm naive, but couldn't the mayor have just said, "Fine, go somewhere else then..." DC is huge. Even at $11/hr, Walmart stands to make a killing in that area just based on the number of people that live there.


You are missing significant piece of info with DC.

The rule that DC city council passed was a minimum wage of $12.50 an hour. But there was a catch....it only applied to retail stores with 75,000 square feet and revenues over $1 billion or more. So it was taylor made for big box stores such as wally world.

Its straight out of the simpsons episode when they film radioactive man in springfield and quimby tries to milk every penny out of the production crew for filiming in town.


Ohhhh, I see. So if someone is working at a small mom and pop shop they could still be making the national minimum wage. It was targeted at the big guys. That makes much more sense.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Shyster on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:25 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I bet if you had were greedy enough to have as much money as they did, you would do the exact same thing. That would go with everybody here.


Fixed that for you.

I find it sad that the people who simply want to keep the money they earned themselves are called "greedy" while the people who want to take that money away from them under the threat of governmental force are not.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Troy Loney on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:30 pm

The money they earned through a fixed system?
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:37 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:Its straight out of the simpsons episode when they film radioactive man in springfield and quimby tries to milk every penny out of the production crew for filiming in town.


:thumb:
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Shyster wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I bet if you had were greedy enough to have as much money as they did, you would do the exact same thing. That would go with everybody here.


Fixed that for you.

I find it sad that the people who simply want to keep the money they earned themselves are called "greedy" while the people who want to take that money away from them under the threat of governmental force are not.

:thumb:
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Willie Kool on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Shyster wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I bet if you had were greedy enough to have as much money as they did, you would do the exact same thing. That would go with everybody here.


Fixed that for you.

I find it sad that the people who simply want to keep the money they earned themselves are called "greedy" while the people who want to take that money away from them under the threat of governmental force are not.

LOL - 'earned'. That's a good one.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:48 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:I also take exception to statements like the following:

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:

But Buffet's hypocrisy is hilarious. You overlook his slash and burn at Heinz because he gives to charity. To tie it back to this thread, some would argue that not only should he have not cut those jobs, he should have made sure everyone was at least making a "living" wage. He can afford it, right?


King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
You are missing my point. Warren Buffet does great things. He isn't responsible for anyone.


Which is it?

Anyone who takes pot shots at Buffett as KStG87 did, for cutting jobs at Heinz, doesn't understand economics. Buffett knows how to run businesses effeciently and effectively. I can't remember the last time Bershire Hathaway bought a business and ended up closing the doors. They buy companies and grow them. That's how they've made billions. Growing companies creates jobs (in the long term), it doesn't eliminate them. Sure, there might be temporary pain as inefficient businesses are reorganized, but that's basic economics. Better to cut off the limb and save the patient than to save the limb and let the infection spread until the patient dies.

Buffett plays by the existing tax law. But when he realizes that it favors him unfairly, he openly advocates for changing it to his detriment. That's anything but hypocrytical. Especially when you consider that he takes the difference in tax money (and MUCH MUCH MUCH more) and uses it for philanthropic purposes.

I take a lot of pot shots on here because people don;t want to address these specific issues, they'd rather do "drive-bys" than to address the actual issues.


It was sarcasm. Buffett owes nobody anything. He has no burden of responsibility to pay anyone anything other than what he deems fair, the same as any other employer. Really, those crying about how unfair employers are for not paying a "living" wage are hilarious. No credit for giving these people employment in the first place, and I guarantee you that 99.999999% of people who think Mc Donald's and others under pay their employees aren't giving the person who takes their order a tip when they go in. Money is easy to spend when it belongs to somebody else.

But, Buffett looks like a hypocritical jerkoff when he is buying companies and slashing employment while at the same time being known as span unparalleled philanthropist.

And in regards to his stance on taxes, why doesn't he just lead the way and take no deductions? Set an example before getting on his soap box and saying what the rules should be for everyone. Walk the walk. Every deduction he takes is optional. If he feels he should be giving more to the government there is nothing stopping him from doing so. I'm sure the IRS would happily accept his over-payment.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:08 pm

With regards to Buffet - let's not pretend his tax suggestion is anything more than him putting himself into a position that takes the target off himself. He's not stupid - when you've got Tomahawk Chop Elizabeth Warren and the president of the United States talking about rich vs poor - you make sure it's the other rich or the soon to be rich who become the target. Read the book "Throw them all out" and you'll find Buffet deep in bed with government. When government grows to the size it has - it becomes the best play when you want to make the kind of money Buffet has.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:16 pm

Ex-porn superstar and card carrying member of MENSA Asia Carrera cites Warren Buffet as one of her personal heroes.
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:21 pm

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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby count2infinity on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

lol
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Re: So you're a fast food manager/owner

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:06 pm

:lol:
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