Women under 30 make more than men

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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:56 pm

We split the bills in a consistent way that we both always have enough to cover our allotted bills and have enough spending money for our individual needs. And any unexpected and/or big joint purchases come from my account.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:35 pm

Make more what? Sandwiches? :pop:
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:30 pm

We had a joint account that we shared for wedding and honeymoon expenses. Everything else, our finances are separate (on paper). But we each have each other's account info and credit card info and stuff. We don't act like there "her money" and "my money". We just put our paychecks in separate banks.

Another reason for this is her credit score is a good bit higher than mine. When we were house hunting, we only used her income to qualify for the loan and having separate accounts helped us out there. Even though it was less annual income, not factoring in my credit score probably got us $50,000 more house. (My name is on the deed/title of the house along with hers, but she's the only one on the loan)
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:32 pm

tif is slowly revealing his secrets to marrying a sugar mama.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby count2infinity on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 pm

tifosi77 wrote:We had a joint account that we shared for wedding and honeymoon expenses. Everything else, our finances are separate (on paper). But we each have each other's account info and credit card info and stuff. We don't act like there "her money" and "my money". We just put our paychecks in separate banks.

Another reason for this is her credit score is a good bit higher than mine. When we were house hunting, we only used her income to qualify for the loan and having separate accounts helped us out there. Even though it was less annual income, not factoring in my credit score probably got us $50,000 more house. (My name is on the deed/title of the house along with hers, but she's the only one on the loan)


hmmm... might keep our separate accounts for a bit for that reason.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:39 pm

No joke, I was really upset this time around that I couldn't be on the loan. The first time, I understood it; my score was in the crapper thanks to old school loans. But I worked pretty hard to rehab my credit over the intervening 2 1/2 years and when our loan officer (same guy as first time) pulled my score I was still like 10 points below their minimum. He said he'd personally make the case with his boss and vouch for me and whatnot, but it was to no avail because of the changes in the mortgage industry post-2008; smaller banks in particular have become really strict in their requirements.

10 points. :(

And I should add that in the year since we closed my score is up by more than those 10 points. I wonder if I can be added to the loan after the fact?
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby dodint on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:47 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:The study suggested that women tend to work less and spend more time with children or leave the workforce altogether. If this is true, women aren't compensated less.


This is a huge thing with us. We're childfree by choice and there is a growing awareness that individuals in the workplace that don't have kids receive the shaft on a constant basis, but there is really no way of fixing it. I dealt with this when I was a Marine. Every Christmas I wasn't in Iraq/Afghanistan I was put on barracks duty because I was child free. I also never missed a PT session because I had to take someone to daycare.

There was an article in Time about the childfree life and it touched on this workplace discrimination a little bit, but it kind of painted women that don't want to be breeders as cold career women. All I can really hope for, without some kind of legal intervention, is that an otherwise equal co-worker that dips out of work to constantly tend to the lifestyle they chose gets a downgraded performance review. That seems like it might be the case because as Hammer noted, the gap might be explained by this behaivor as more often than not that coworker will be a woman.

As an aside, I'm not anti-child or family. I just want people to own the lifestyle they choose and not expect to be subsidized by mine.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Crankshaft on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:20 pm

dodint wrote:As an aside, I'm not anti-child or family. I just want people to own the lifestyle they choose and not expect to be subsidized by mine.


What subsidies, specifically?
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:31 pm

tifosi77 wrote:We had a joint account that we shared for wedding and honeymoon expenses. Everything else, our finances are separate (on paper). But we each have each other's account info and credit card info and stuff. We don't act like there "her money" and "my money". We just put our paychecks in separate banks.

Another reason for this is her credit score is a good bit higher than mine. When we were house hunting, we only used her income to qualify for the loan and having separate accounts helped us out there. Even though it was less annual income, not factoring in my credit score probably got us $50,000 more house. (My name is on the deed/title of the house along with hers, but she's the only one on the loan)


Hard to believe that a bank would accept a mortgage with a note that doesn't match the way property is deeded. What if something happened to your wife, or if you get divorced and lay claim to the property but not the debt?

regarding separate accounts... I know a lot of people that do this, and in fact I know some people that sit down and divide up the bills each month. My wife and I have had a joint account since day one, and she had a debit card for my account even before we were married, but she's at home with the kids now anyway. Separate credit cards, but income is joint (and by joint, of course I mean hers...)
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Factorial on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:37 pm

dodint wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:The study suggested that women tend to work less and spend more time with children or leave the workforce altogether. If this is true, women aren't compensated less.


This is a huge thing with us. We're childfree by choice and there is a growing awareness that individuals in the workplace that don't have kids receive the shaft on a constant basis, but there is really no way of fixing it. I dealt with this when I was a Marine. Every Christmas I wasn't in Iraq/Afghanistan I was put on barracks duty because I was child free. I also never missed a PT session because I had to take someone to daycare.

There was an article in Time about the childfree life and it touched on this workplace discrimination a little bit, but it kind of painted women that don't want to be breeders as cold career women. All I can really hope for, without some kind of legal intervention, is that an otherwise equal co-worker that dips out of work to constantly tend to the lifestyle they chose gets a downgraded performance review. That seems like it might be the case because as Hammer noted, the gap might be explained by this behaivor as more often than not that coworker will be a woman.

As an aside, I'm not anti-child or family. I just want people to own the lifestyle they choose and not expect to be subsidized by mine.



The I'm being discriminated against because I don't have kids routine......

Good thing your parents didn't feel the same way.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby PensFanInDC on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:47 pm

eddysnake wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
count2infinity wrote:If I could, I'd be a stay at home dad in a heartbeat.


I say that and then see what my wife goes through on my days off. Not sure if I could do that 5 days a week with 3 kids (plus she babysits 2 others).


I certainly could. It helps that we only have the 1 child right now though. It's different with more I am sure. A friend of mine is a stay at home dad with 2 kids. He said with one it was OK but with two....now they outnumber you....
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:58 pm

dodint wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:The study suggested that women tend to work less and spend more time with children or leave the workforce altogether. If this is true, women aren't compensated less.


This is a huge thing with us. We're childfree by choice and there is a growing awareness that individuals in the workplace that don't have kids receive the shaft on a constant basis, but there is really no way of fixing it. I dealt with this when I was a Marine. Every Christmas I wasn't in Iraq/Afghanistan I was put on barracks duty because I was child free. I also never missed a PT session because I had to take someone to daycare.

There was an article in Time about the childfree life and it touched on this workplace discrimination a little bit, but it kind of painted women that don't want to be breeders as cold career women. All I can really hope for, without some kind of legal intervention, is that an otherwise equal co-worker that dips out of work to constantly tend to the lifestyle they chose gets a downgraded performance review. That seems like it might be the case because as Hammer noted, the gap might be explained by this behaivor as more often than not that coworker will be a woman.

As an aside, I'm not anti-child or family. I just want people to own the lifestyle they choose and not expect to be subsidized by mine.

I don't think that the study said this. I think the study said women choose to work fewer hours (e.g., they set their employer's expectation lower -- they'll be an SVP of Sales that works 50 hour weeks and has X responsibilities, while a male may be an SVP of sales that works 60 hour weeks and has X+Y responsibilities) because they choose to have more leisure time. But what you're saying may also be true.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby dodint on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:38 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
dodint wrote:As an aside, I'm not anti-child or family. I just want people to own the lifestyle they choose and not expect to be subsidized by mine.


What subsidies, specifically?


Indirect labor. We get paid equal salaries for the same position, but the parent can't stay late, attend meetings, be in on time, etc but childfree worker is expected to meet not only their workload but pick up the workload of the absent worker.

Like this Slate article or this one in NY Magazine. Or, you know, my first hand experience.

Hammer, I think we're saying the same thing, but I'm jumping to conclusions why women might not want work as much.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby count2infinity on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:42 pm

dodint, are you on salary or hourly? Is there some sort of punishment involved with you not picking up their workload? Are you being paid more than they are?
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:44 pm

I get where dodint is coming from.
I've seen plenty of co-workers with children, who take a few hours here and few hours there to attend to things....with no expectation of them using vacation time.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:58 pm

Pitt87 wrote:Hard to believe that a bank would accept a mortgage with a note that doesn't match the way property is deeded. What if something happened to your wife, or if you get divorced and lay claim to the property but not the debt?

We've done it twice, with the same lender.

Pitt87 wrote:regarding separate accounts... I know a lot of people that do this, and in fact I know some people that sit down and divide up the bills each month.

That's pretty much what we do. She pays the expensive bills. :wink:

Actually, she pays water/electric and trash, and DirecTV, I pay phone/internet, gas, and car insurance on both vehicles. (She had a fleet car for many years and so never actually had her own policy.)
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:01 pm

Without intended to stir the pot, I've known quite a few 'holiday Jews' who haven't seen the inside of a synagogue in two decades, but leave every Friday before sundown.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby dodint on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:17 pm

I'm on salary. Luckily I'm not in that position right now because I have a satellite office effectively to myself for the time being.

It happens to hourly too, though. Ever work in a restaurant and have someone dump their stuff on you because of whatever? You get compensated by having to work an extra few hours, unless your manager is a real jerk, but there is more to life than money and work. I think the extra time at work annoys me more than any extra money I would earn because I value my time off and didn't appreciate being held there because of someone else's life choices. But low wage hourly work is its own sort of hell that might be out of the scope of this discussion.

The military was its own kind of situation, because there is no way to fire someone or escape. Kids were used as tools ALL THE TIME for people to get out of everything from PT to deployments. We had a great Childcare Development Center on base, but some Marines I worked with noticed if you took your kids out in town to the daycare there, which didn't open till 7am, they would never have to be to work on time or PT with the section. It's a clever art to use your kids as pawns like that and leadership couldn't do anything about it. The fact that it's so rampant is probably due to the government environment, obviously in the private sector they'd be eliminated eventually. Hopefully.

Like I said, I'm not anti-kid or family. I just would prefer fair treatment and loathe hearing people moan about needing more accommodation. I get that parents may want a career, and may want kids, but there is an inherent sacrifice with those choices. At least with telecommuting the amount of sacrifice has the potential to decrease for certain individuals. I was fortunate to work from home while we fought my wife's cancer this fall because I work in IT for the military now.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Grunthy on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:21 pm

So you aren't anti-kid/family but despise everything about people you work with that have kids/family. Makes sense...
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby dodint on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:31 pm

Nope. The guy I share my office with (different company, same office) has kids. He's diligent about managing his work life and doesn't cheat his employer. The VAST majority of people are like that, especially in the private sector. However, like any other behavior you can think of, some people abuse the system to suit themselves and it hurts others.

I reiterate that I don't have a grudge against kids and family-first folks because I get tagged with that a lot in discussions like this. From my perspective (and a pretty large and growing faction of my generation) having a family is a choice, not a divine mandate or obligation to the species, so I don't feel I owe anyone anything because they chose to have kids. That is the difference that puts me on the other side of these discussions and the root of why people take offense to my stance and start the personal attacks; I don't feel I owe them anything and they feel entitled to my submission.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby Grunthy on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:34 pm

I don't have a family yet, but I could care less if someone takes time off to see their family/kids. You can bet your ass that I will.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby dodint on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:41 pm

Paid Time Off, making up the time/work later, or marking your card as 8 hours and excusing yourself? The choice is important and each has its own ramifications for everyone in the workplace. It's the people in the third scenario that ruin it for the other two that mean (and do) well.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:45 pm

It isn't a question of someone taking time away from the office for their kids, it's how that time affects others in the workplace. If X is habitually leaving the office half an hour before closing to they can get home a pick up their kids from this, that, or the other, that's a couple hours a week they aren't in the office doing their job. And if there is an instance where the work that is not getting done because of that absenteeism is falling on the shoulders of others who are there the full 40 hours, make the case why the person with kids deserves the same salary.

It's kind of a sensitive subject for me, as I recently had a situation where my counterpart basically started mailing it in. Our boss left the company in March and between then and when he was let go in September he probably was only actually in the office a total of 25 hours a week. He would actually leave work here at 1:30 and go coach Crossfit classes and be gone for like 2 hours. He was ultimately cut loose with a dozen other people in a layoff, which means he got a severance package, uncontested unemployment, COBRA, the works. His arse should have been fired for cause, but I work for a very non-confrontational company and so that was never an option.

Granted, that's an extreme example of someone successfully gaming the system to their benefit and to the detriment of their co-workers, and I shared it largely out of a personal desire to vent. But it still rankles when people do objectively less work but expect the same amount of pay.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:45 pm

My boss has a pretty liberal, "if you come in to work, but have to go to the doctor or get sick" policy and doesn't require anyone to use up sick or leave time.
We all benefit from it, so I can't complain too much. However, I looked at the staff calendar today and one person - who is constantly doing this - has 4 "events" marked for the next two weeks.

In the long run, it adds up and a number of coworkers have mentioned it in the past....Sure, it's allowed, but there's a point where it translates into taking advantage of the system.
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Re: Women under 30 make more than men

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:49 pm

Yeah, I don't really have a problem with situations like that, provided it isn't abused. But when it becomes chronic? That really grinds my gears.
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