Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in NYC

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Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in NYC

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:41 pm

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/07/22217169-ex-cops-firefighters-busted-in-huge-disability-scam-in-new-york-city

More than 100 former police officers, firefighters and other city workers are accused of faking mental disabilities in order to get tens of thousands of dollars in Social Security benefits, NBC 4 New York has learned.

The former workers who claimed they could barely take care of themselves were, in fact, pursuing activities like jet skiing, fishing, shopping, playing basketball and even working in other jobs.

All allegedly got help gaming the system from the same two lawyers and two former police officers who allegedly took cash payments.

Law enforcement sources said the 106 people being charged are just a first wave in what is a growing investigation. As many as 300 to 400 other former city workers are now facing scrutiny.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:22 pm

There are few things that get my blood boiling more than people scamming government programs and insurance companies. All it does is screw things up for honest people.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby BigMcK on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:27 pm

'When ex-cops and firefighters show they also have human greed and fraud genes', next on A&E.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:35 pm

The Feds should hire an army of investigators to bust all the fraudsters on SSI.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Geezer on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:05 pm

Not really news. Faking disability and everything else under the sun to get government bucks is rampant.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Geezer on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:10 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01 ... rhaul-but/
And away we go. If you think you,ve seen fraud before you ain't seen nothing yet once the government totally runs health care
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:31 am

I dunno, most of the stuff I've read indicates that a proper single-payer system greatly reduces the amount of fraud in the healthcare system because, at least in part, all of the medical information is in one place. Part of what makes fraud in our system so rampant is the patchwork of providers; it's easier for the right hand to not know what the left hand is up to when you're talking about arms from two different people. For example, the NHS in Great Britain usually investigates somewhere around 350-400 fraud cases a year. Total. In a country of 60 million. Put into perspective, that would be like 225-250 fraud cases per year in California..... which I think is substantially less than what we currently have.

And when fraud does occur in single-payer systems, it's most often billing fraud. Not patients submitting false claims, akin to the numbskulls in the disability cases from the OP.

Also, your Fox story talks about the Vermont single-payer system.... it is currently forecasted to save close to 20% (between 2015 and 2024) on Vermont's healthcare costs through reductions in fraud. So there's that.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:49 am

"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

Progressives response to this news reminds me of Captain Renault in Casablanca.

These programs are set up to be ripe for abuse. NYC's pension programs have rampant abuse. The NYC MTA is even worse.

What's a shame is that you're hearing this because NYC has an active fraud unit that investigates this type of activity.

Federal programs? Not so much.

But carry on Captain Renault, and we'll go collect your chips for you.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:29 am

Like sands through the hourglass....
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:35 am

Factorial wrote:The Feds should hire an army of investigators to bust all the fraudsters on SSI.

Sure, don't address the underlying broken system, just hire more Governement employees to investigate the other government employees.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:42 am

Yes, providing SSI to those truly in need (the disabled) is the wrong thing for a society to do. :roll:

The investigators would be looking at the recipients who are making fraudulent claims assisted by private sector attorneys and physicians.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:15 am

During the eight years of the Bush Minor administration, SSI payments exploded by ~90%. During the Obamanator's tenure that number has gone up by another 1/3, and it's now at the point where the ratio of beneficiaries to those paying SS taxes and funding the program has doubled in recent years. The growth is wildly disproportionate to the expected expansion of the program predicted by actuaries as baby boomers retire, and a big driver of that is fraud. SSI has conceded that they send out about 1.3 million checks a month to unverified beneficiaries. That's a potential fraud pool of nearly 10% of all beneficiaries, and that's just in eligibility fraud. That number does not take into account things like concealing the death of a beneficiary to keep hauling in their checks, or misuse of a beneficiary's funds (i.e. a parent using their child's SSI check to buy things they shouldn't be buying.... this is the type of fraud I'm most directly familiar with, as I have family members who abuse this provision constantly).

Now here's an interesting factoid. Been reading about SSI fraud this morning and I learned that it is currently prohibited for the government to pay a reward to someone who reports SS fraud. There's a reward system for reporting Medicare fraud (up to $1,000, scaled to the level of fraud reported and verified). But not SSI. It would be helpful to close that loophole, because the actual fines and penalties for SS fraud are quite steep; it's a federal felony and the monetary fine can be as much as a quarter million dollars.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:21 am

Politicians see "scamming" such government programs as a feature, not a bug. Just another dependent willing to vote against anyone who threatens their "bennies"
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:26 am

Factorial wrote:Yes, providing SSI to those truly in need (the disabled) is the wrong thing for a society to do. :roll:


Society can do it, through things called charities - who might be more local to those in need and better equipped to verify that need. As much as it sounds great in theory - a one size fits all solution to helping those in need just seems like way to much to handle for a country of 313 million. And as we've seen - when the fraud explodes in such systems, and you try to reign that in - you become a cold bastard who hates children.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:32 am

The problem is if society was as egalitarian as that, there would be no need for the program in the first place.

As you say, sounds great in theory. But actual demonstrable history refutes the claim.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:43 am

tifosi77 wrote:The problem is if society was as egalitarian as that, there would be no need for the program in the first place.

As you say, sounds great in theory. But actual demonstrable history refutes the claim.



Yep, read Nellie Bly's expose "Ten Days in a Mad-House" for what charity was like in the 1880's:

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/ ... house.html
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:44 am

tifosi77 wrote:The problem is if society was as egalitarian as that, there would be no need for the program in the first place.

As you say, sounds great in theory. But actual demonstrable history refutes the claim.


Well, if you see a need, you are more than welcome to donate or start a charity. It's a free country. You are even more than welcome to ask me to donate and I might even do it. Forcing me to do it with the law is a whole other thing, and then when I see fraud and abuse... well now I've got a problem and I really have no recourse. I can't walk away.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:58 am

Don't get me wrong - I know you have great intentions when you see people in need, and I think most people would agree. It's merely a point on how best to do it. If we go further, we get into politics thread 3.0. I know where you guys are coming from, and I'm sure if we were all lawmakers we could hash it out until I go on Fox to talk to Hannity, and you go on MSNBC to chat with Ed Shultz, and we catch each others soundbites, and then hate each other for eternity.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:59 am

Factorial wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:The problem is if society was as egalitarian as that, there would be no need for the program in the first place.

As you say, sounds great in theory. But actual demonstrable history refutes the claim.



Yep, read Nellie Bly's expose "Ten Days in a Mad-House" for what charity was like in the 1880's:

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/ ... house.html


What in the world does something from 150 years ago have to do with today?
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:10 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:The problem is if society was as egalitarian as that, there would be no need for the program in the first place.

As you say, sounds great in theory. But actual demonstrable history refutes the claim.



Yep, read Nellie Bly's expose "Ten Days in a Mad-House" for what charity was like in the 1880's:

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/ ... house.html


What in the world does something from 150 years ago have to do with today?


Someone suggested we get rid of all government support for the "needy" and go back to one solely consisting of charity.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:19 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
What in the world does something from 150 years ago have to do with today?


What an odd statment to make.

Which is just a general observation, not a response to whatever it is you guys are debating.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:20 pm

Wasn't there a movie about fire fighters being domestic partners to scam the govt for benefits?
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby npv708 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:38 pm

Kovy27 wrote:Wasn't there a movie about fire fighters being domestic partners to scam the govt for benefits?


I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:39 pm

Gaucho wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
What in the world does something from 150 years ago have to do with today?


What an odd statment to make.

Which is just a general observation, not a response to whatever it is you guys are debating.


To say that things are different today than they were in the 1880's is an "odd statement"?

Hmmmm... *that's* an odd statement.
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Re: Ex-cops, firefighters busted in huge disability scam in

Postby IanMoran on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:40 pm

npv708 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:Wasn't there a movie about fire fighters being domestic partners to scam the govt for benefits?


I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry

Image
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