Airlines are the worst.

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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:50 pm

tifosi77 wrote:The one across-the-board measure I would be happy with would be to have between 1 and 3 uniformed air marshals on every commercial flight, plus a similar number of plainclothes marshals on larger aircraft. (It isn't really practical to have 6 marshals on a 12-seat commuter jet) I've heard some argue that this unnecessarily would make air travel feel intimidating, but I think I'd be okay with that.


I wouldn't mind that.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:27 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:However, I'm OK with the current screening process as long as it prevents even one more 9/11 type act.


Maybe you should then insist these airlines actually protect baggage areas because, as it's been shown on various news shows and such, people can often just walk in and place a bag with a bomb in it either on a delivery cart or directly on the airplane. I guarantee it that if 'terrorists' wanted to blow up a plane, they would have. Same goes for a bridge or something. I honestly don't think you can truly prevent this sort of stuff if some people want to do it. Best plan, imo, is to get the hell out of Middle East and stop pissing those people off.

I personally worry about home-grown acts of terrorism at a workplace or school a lot more than an airplane attack.


As I said, I'm OK with the current screening processes. I'm have no desire to raise my profile with HLS/TSA by becoming an activist.
I will say that it would be hard to sneak a bag onto an airplane without it going through TSA. That is, unless your're an airline employee or a TSA employee. (See also the recent events at Wichita airport)


I am not OK with making me walk around barefoot like a child, I am not OK with having my girl get felt up by some pervert, and I am not OK with a machine that can flash my dick to another pervert. All while a 'terrorist' can dress up, sneak in, and put a bomb on a delivery cart.

Please tell me you don't believe that the sole reason there was no other attack since 9/11 is because of such screenings. I think they just didn't try hard enough and that is only because they didn't want to. They could attack something else, a loosely protected nuclear plant for one or a bridge or a movie theater, if they really want. Maybe it is a sad thing to say, but I think we're sort of at their mercy as far as all the terrorist activity goes. It's no different than the domestic stuff. We can try and catch some, but we can't stop it all.

You and I are on the same page as far as the Middle East goes and you know that it would probably be a good idea not to piss those people off as we've been doing for decades. You want to stop that kind of terrorist, let's start there.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby IamtheWaris on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:30 pm

tifosi77 wrote:The problem of airport security is multi-faceted. There haven't really been two attacks that have been similar enough in their nature so as to lead one to think a security measure designed to stop one would have caught the other. One of the main criticisms I have of the TSA is that they are rearward facing in their strategy; they are always trying to prevent the last attack, not the next one. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. In terms of terrorism, I'm far more worried about someone compromising our outmoded and almost quaint air traffic control system than I am someone trying to use their underpants as an explosive. Making passengers remove their belts and get felt up by TSA screeners isn't really going to address that.

The one across-the-board measure I would be happy with would be to have between 1 and 3 uniformed air marshals on every commercial flight, plus a similar number of plainclothes marshals on larger aircraft. (It isn't really practical to have 6 marshals on a 12-seat commuter jet) I've heard some argue that this unnecessarily would make air travel feel intimidating, but I think I'd be okay with that.


Yes I agree TSA are reactive rather than proactive in their approach.

I don't think the debate has been about terrorism in general but rather how justified are the inconveniences air travel causes. I don't see how your point about air traffic control applies to the discussion of how airport security is overly burdensome.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Sarcastic wrote:I am not OK with making me walk around barefoot like a child, I am not OK with having my girl get felt up by some pervert, and I am not OK with a machine that can flash my dick to another pervert. All while a 'terrorist' can dress up, sneak in, and put a bomb on a delivery cart.


:face:
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby Shyster on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:49 pm

A little late, but relevant to this thread:



... as excellent examples of just how stupid the TSA's rules are.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:12 pm

HAHAHA

Just like Santa Claus, we don't make you safer unless you believe.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:21 pm

IamtheWaris wrote:I don't see how your point about air traffic control applies to the discussion of how airport security is overly burdensome.

The focus on Security Theater obscures what is a far, far greater threat. But policing against someone hacking our insanely vulnerable ATC system doesn't provide a visible show of force (aka safety blanket), and therefore is all-too-often left out of the discussion.

Google "ADS-B, spoofing" to see what I'm talking about. The new next-gen ATC system we're spending billions of dollars on does not even encrypt or authenticate transmissions.

As I said, it's the outward focus on the last attack instead of the next one.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby IamtheWaris on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:42 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
IamtheWaris wrote:I don't see how your point about air traffic control applies to the discussion of how airport security is overly burdensome.

The focus on Security Theater obscures what is a far, far greater threat. But policing against someone hacking our insanely vulnerable ATC system doesn't provide a visible show of force (aka safety blanket), and therefore is all-too-often left out of the discussion.

Google "ADS-B, spoofing" to see what I'm talking about. The new next-gen ATC system we're spending billions of dollars on does not even encrypt or authenticate transmissions.

As I said, it's the outward focus on the last attack instead of the next one.



Why not focus on both? I am not following the logic. Because ATC is is not adequately monitored, neither should airport security?

Are you referring to the allocation of security resources? I am sure if they needed to increase resources for ATC control security they would do so without compromising airport security.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:09 pm

Again, it's the presumption that security theater = 'adequate monitoring'.

And you should ask TSA why they don't do both, because they're the ones making policy decisions which put spending priority on in-person scanning and threat intervention over cybersecurity.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby Firebird on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:22 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Oh the stories I could tell.

I'll just share the most recent one.

On Saturday a TSA agent told me that he had to pat me down. I raised my arms out to te side and he went on a full five minute rant at me ... "Why do you guys always raise your hands? I'm not arresting you or anything.. Who asked you to raise your hands, not me, when are you people going to learn to follow instructions...

I said nothing, didn't need to he, he'd embarrassed himself enough.


When I go through foreign airports, the security always raise there arms like that signaling to me they want to pat me down


Oh, and Emirates is spectacular. On a 3 hour flight, I had a full meal (chicken), desert, and 4 bottles of Hennessy. In Coach. Included.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:52 am

newarenanow wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I am not OK with making me walk around barefoot like a child, I am not OK with having my girl get felt up by some pervert, and I am not OK with a machine that can flash my dick to another pervert. All while a 'terrorist' can dress up, sneak in, and put a bomb on a delivery cart.


:face:


You should get disgusted by the fact so many people have already come forward and complained, terrified, traumatized, that they're getting felt up. Yup, they're feeling people's crotches to protect us from terrorism. Is that world's biggest joke or what.
Last edited by Sarcastic on Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:53 am

Shyster wrote:A little late, but relevant to this thread:



... as excellent examples of just how stupid the TSA's rules are.


Yes, I wanted to look for this video on youtube. Thanks for posting it.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby yubb on Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:26 am

If we really wanted less terrorism we'd remove our military from all the countries around the world and stop antagonizing and provoking people. If the roles had been reversed, and Taliban forces were occupying our country trying to force Islam on us, we'd have called the people who flew planes into their buildings patriots.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:18 am

yubb wrote:If we really wanted less terrorism we'd remove our military from all the countries around the world and stop antagonizing and provoking people. If the roles had been reversed, and Taliban forces were occupying our country trying to force Islam on us, we'd have called the people who flew planes into their buildings patriots.


You do realize they flew the planes into the building before we ever had any troops over there in Afganastan, correct?
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:59 am

One of the primary motivations for the 9/11 attacks was the ongoing occupation by U.S.-led western forces of the Arabian Peninsula during and after the 1990-91 Gulf War. It was the subject of a fatwa bin Laden issued five years prior to 9/11; he and his kind considered it highly provocative to have thousands of American troops in the Islamic holy land, and on top of that he remained somewhat butthurt over the fact that the Saudi king refused his offer to send the mujahadeen rabble to help oust Saddam Huessein from Kuwait.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby PghSkins on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:02 am

ZOMG MARIO IS ON MY FLIGHT TO DALLAS <hyperventilate>
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby PghSkins on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:37 am

Plane has frozen water lines. Yall trip bout to suck
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:46 am

PghSkins wrote:Plane has frozen water lines. Yall trip bout to suck


Say hello to Mario, he's an extremely approachable guy.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:54 am

tifosi77 wrote:One of the primary motivations for the 9/11 attacks was the ongoing occupation by U.S.-led western forces of the Arabian Peninsula during and after the 1990-91 Gulf War. It was the subject of a fatwa bin Laden issued five years prior to 9/11; he and his kind considered it highly provocative to have thousands of American troops in the Islamic holy land, and on top of that he remained somewhat butthurt over the fact that the Saudi king refused his offer to send the mujahadeen rabble to help oust Saddam Huessein from Kuwait.


So they were butthurt because we stopped a dictator from invading an ally of ours, not because we were there trying to convert people from Islam and hanging out like yupp stated.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:55 am

PghSkins wrote:ZOMG MARIO IS ON MY FLIGHT TO DALLAS <hyperventilate>


That's actually really cool.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby CBear3 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:10 am

I've read this thread five times, but today I thought it was titled "Aliens are the worst" and wondered what Doc had been up to.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby PghSkins on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:46 am

They let people off the plane if we wanted, Mario and Nathalie are just sitting in the departure lounge with the rest of us hoi polloi. I'm not gonna bug him.

Looks like he's in the best shape of his life.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby newarenanow on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:51 am

PghSkins wrote:They let people off the plane if we wanted, Mario and Nathalie are just sitting in the departure lounge with the rest of us hoi polloi. I'm not gonna bug him.

Looks like he's in the best shape of his life.


Are others bothering him at all?

Usually when I see a famous person I just leave them alone.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby PghSkins on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:53 am

newarenanow wrote:
PghSkins wrote:They let people off the plane if we wanted, Mario and Nathalie are just sitting in the departure lounge with the rest of us hoi polloi. I'm not gonna bug him.

Looks like he's in the best shape of his life.


Are others bothering him at all?

Usually when I see a famous person I just leave them alone.


Nope, haven't seen anyone talk to him.
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Re: Airlines are the worst.

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:05 pm

newarenanow wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:One of the primary motivations for the 9/11 attacks was the ongoing occupation by U.S.-led western forces of the Arabian Peninsula during and after the 1990-91 Gulf War. It was the subject of a fatwa bin Laden issued five years prior to 9/11; he and his kind considered it highly provocative to have thousands of American troops in the Islamic holy land, and on top of that he remained somewhat butthurt over the fact that the Saudi king refused his offer to send the mujahadeen rabble to help oust Saddam Huessein from Kuwait.


So they were butthurt because we stopped a dictator from invading an ally of ours, not because we were there trying to convert people from Islam and hanging out like yupp stated.


Actually, Bin Laden was more upset over the US military presence in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.cfr.org/saudi-arabia/saudi-a ... rces/p7739

Antagonism toward the seemingly prolonged U.S. presence fed resentment and anger toward the kingdom's authoritarian government and fueled Islamic extremism. One of the chief grievances of Saudi-born Osama bin Laden was that "infidel" troops from the United States were present in Saudi Arabia, which contains Islam's two holiest sites, Mecca and Medina.
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