123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

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123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Geezer on Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:33 pm

http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/jan/24/l ... in-warren/
Really a shame on many counts. Bottom line is that GE asked for concessions and the membership voted against the proposal 91 - 84. These jobs averaged $22-30 an hour in a relatively low cost of living area. Warren is part of some of the rustiest zones of the rust belt. The smaller towns in western Pa & eastern Ohio were similar in that they were usually mill towns that thrived based on manufacturing. The end of manufacturing in the U.S. doomed these places as there's no replacement for the 6 digit job losses. The "recovery" in the last 40 years has been population loss. Young people leave since there's no future leaving many of these towns with 1/2 or less of their prior size. What remains are an aged populace or those who were on government assistance due to infirmity or personal failure.
This plant housed the first light bulb company in the country and was also where Packard autos started. I passed this plant every day since the steel company I worked at was 1/4 mile up the road. This issue is near and dear to me for many reasons. I worked in heavy manufacturing for 40+ years as did most of my close relatives, I majored in industrial management, I enjoyed the environment and the people.
My view is that the loss of manufacturing is the biggest cause of the economic decline in the U.S. with no real answer how to replace those middle class jobs.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Bioshock on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:05 pm

I feel ya, Geezer. Really a shame that the Rust Belt has has such a decline.

I can see it coming for my industry as well so I'm going back to school while working in my field. When the hammer comes in 10 years, i will be too valuable to layoff.

At least that's my goal anyways...
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Geezer on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:40 pm

Bioshock wrote:I feel ya, Geezer. Really a shame that the Rust Belt has has such a decline.

I can see it coming for my industry as well so I'm going back to school while working in my field. When the hammer comes in 10 years, i will be too valuable to layoff.

At least that's my goal anyways...

Good luck.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Firebird on Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Age of the Union is ending
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby dodint on Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:57 pm

Yup. First Twinkies and now this.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby pressure=9Pa on Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:53 pm

Been to the city many of times, and this does seem to be a trend. Sad for the people that consider it their town.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:16 am

Natural gas expansion will bring manufacturing back, shame there are so many uninformed folks who are against it,
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby jprolley on Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:56 pm

not anti-union by any stretch, but they have become their own worst enemy. the same day this story ran, employees of vallourec overwhelmingly rejected unionizing.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:59 pm

UPS has been working without a contract now for 6 months.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Factorial on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:26 pm

How about corporate greed:

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.


And now they try to squeeze as much as they can out their workers and close down the plant when they don't get their way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 52094.html
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Geezer on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Factorial wrote:How about corporate greed:

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.


And now they try to squeeze as much as they can out their workers and close down the plant when they don't get their way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 52094.html

Whether a particular plant is viable pretty much depends on that particular factory. If ,for example, if I had 4 restaurants and 3 were making tons of money and the 4th was unprofitable than why wouldn't I close the 4th? How would it be business greed?
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby BuckintheLou on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:06 pm

Sucks man. Not just jobs...people's lives Bro. And it's everywhere. Auto industry (for the most part): kaput. Coal and steel (don't have to tell y'all about that) industry: a small fraction of what it once was.
Would love for my next thing-a-ma-bob (or whatever) to show up at the house with a 'MADE IN THE USA' stamp on it.
That would be awesome! Seems what we do make is excessively overpriced or not needed at all.
Once the greatest manufacturing country in the world who now has to get their shoelaces from abroad. Pitiful man. Pitiful.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:08 pm

Geezer wrote:
Factorial wrote:How about corporate greed:

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.


And now they try to squeeze as much as they can out their workers and close down the plant when they don't get their way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 52094.html

Whether a particular plant is viable pretty much depends on that particular factory. If ,for example, if I had 4 restaurants and 3 were making tons of money and the 4th was unprofitable than why wouldn't I close the 4th? How would it be business greed?

Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Geezer on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:41 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
Geezer wrote:
Factorial wrote:How about corporate greed:

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.


And now they try to squeeze as much as they can out their workers and close down the plant when they don't get their way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 52094.html

Whether a particular plant is viable pretty much depends on that particular factory. If ,for example, if I had 4 restaurants and 3 were making tons of money and the 4th was unprofitable than why wouldn't I close the 4th? How would it be business greed?

Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.

Call it greed if you like. Mostly corporations are amoral, not immoral. If they can make more money at plant B than plant A, they'll make a product at plant B. Their purpose is to make money, not to provide jobs. That's cold but it's true. All things being equal, most people would quit working for Mr Smith if they can get a job with Mr Jones if offered more money. I don't see that as greed on that person's part.
I don't know if the plant you're referring to was profitable or not or why they asked for concessions. Usually plants in the South and in right to work states have lower labor costs and often lower taxes. That's why American plants have migrated south and west for a long time. I don't like to see it either but it's a fact of life.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby DudeMan2766 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:50 pm

I think people just look at Owners/CEOs/The high ups at large corporations as already being filthy rich. So shutting down a small town factory or something to go make money elsewhere looks greedy. Its not right really, but I just think on the outside thats what it looks like. I do the same with pro athletes. A guy making 6 million a year goes somewhere to make 8. Yeah you can't blame someone for taking a higher salary but at the same time its like "how much money do you need?'

I dont even know if thats a correct comparison to this story at all, but I think thats the way people always feel. Unless a company is making a negative profit, shutting a division down and going elsewhere always looks bad.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Geezer on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:04 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:I think people just look at Owners/CEOs/The high ups at large corporations as already being filthy rich. So shutting down a small town factory or something to go make money elsewhere looks greedy. Its not right really, but I just think on the outside thats what it looks like. I do the same with pro athletes. A guy making 6 million a year goes somewhere to make 8. Yeah you can't blame someone for taking a higher salary but at the same time its like "how much money do you need?'

I dont even know if thats a correct comparison to this story at all, but I think thats the way people always feel. Unless a company is making a negative profit, shutting a division down and going elsewhere always looks bad.

I agree with that perception.I don't blame them for their view but there's a lot of aspects that many don't know about. Sometimes a plant needs money invested for more modern equipment to meet higher quality demands or to meet more stringent environmental regs. If they don't think that plant has a good future they won't spend money for that investment. I worked in heavy industry for 40 years. A combined 16 years were at two plants that closed which cost me my job. Manufacturing in the US is really a cut throat, dog-eat-dog situation.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:32 pm

Speaking of jobs going bye-bye. I went up to what I thought was the cashier at CVS and she wouldn't even deal with me, just pointed to a couple of automated checkouts. I was taken aback. I don't shop at CVS often and really didn't remember those. I heard a conversation on CNN today where they were talking about disappearing jobs, which lead to thousands of people going off the grid, as they eventually stop looking for work. I don't know what happens to them, but I do know they're not counted toward that whole unemployment stat.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:56 pm

There is no doubt a lot of corporate greed out there. Unfortunately, labor unions are also a significant problem. Obviously there is a certain standard of pay, benefits, etc that workers should have, but I think somewhere along the way, labor unions have kind of transformed into PACs more than anything else. The role they played during the earlier parts of the 20th century (an important role mind you) has completely changed.

Long story short, there is plenty of blame to go around. In the case of the auto industry in Detroit, the labor unions own major culpability there. When you have a guy that puts Part A onto Part B getting paid $30/hour, there's a problem.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby BigMcK on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:37 pm

mac5155 wrote:UPS has been working without a contract now for 6 months.


Maybe UPS is without a ratified new bargaining agreement? In my experience, even an expired 'contract' allows management and labor to keep the doors open If bargaining talks are underway. Wages, Benefits, Pensions, work Conditions, are in play, but day-to-day operations (Seniority, Safety, Procedures, Policies) follow the same guidelines as under the latest ratified agreement -- even if expired.

Boeing is awaiting a final vote from labor in Seattle before moving to South Carolina, Texas, California and 17(?) other States that are willing to give Boeing land, tax breaks, and actual cash for them to come to their individual State. From what I know, Guaranteed Pensions Vs. 401k contributions and Lifetime Family Medical are in play.

A customer of mine in California moved manufacturing to Mexico 5 years ago. They moved into a maquiladora just over the border. The address was , I think, 97 Main Street. The maquiladora across the street was 79733 Bridgeador Ave. No rhyme or reason for an address. The demand for skilled machinists brought wages up in the area comparable to US minimum wages. That maquiladora closed and sent jobs overseas.

Global Economy?

Those born today will have such a different idea of success for their life than what we do. I guess.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:46 pm

I believe that we had a severe correction in the labor market in 2008, many of which will not return. That's not pleasant, but what can you do.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby DudeMan2766 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:48 pm

Sarcastic wrote:Speaking of jobs going bye-bye. I went up to what I thought was the cashier at CVS and she wouldn't even deal with me, just pointed to a couple of automated checkouts. I was taken aback. I don't shop at CVS often and really didn't remember those. I heard a conversation on CNN today where they were talking about disappearing jobs, which lead to thousands of people going off the grid, as they eventually stop looking for work. I don't know what happens to them, but I do know they're not counted toward that whole unemployment stat.


First off, had no idea there were CVS's with self checkouts. Second that's kind of funny this was brought up as I've used nothing but self checkouts for years and years. Took a quick trip to the store today on my 30 min lunch break and it was packed. The 4 self checkouts were backed up and I went to the express lane and had someone check me out, I can't remember the last time I did that. Even used the little divider bar on the belt. It may have been 6-7 years
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby BigMcK on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:54 pm

Columbia, be glad that some are still standing? Time may tell.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:21 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:Speaking of jobs going bye-bye. I went up to what I thought was the cashier at CVS and she wouldn't even deal with me, just pointed to a couple of automated checkouts. I was taken aback. I don't shop at CVS often and really didn't remember those. I heard a conversation on CNN today where they were talking about disappearing jobs, which lead to thousands of people going off the grid, as they eventually stop looking for work. I don't know what happens to them, but I do know they're not counted toward that whole unemployment stat.


First off, had no idea there were CVS's with self checkouts. Second that's kind of funny this was brought up as I've used nothing but self checkouts for years and years. Took a quick trip to the store today on my 30 min lunch break and it was packed. The 4 self checkouts were backed up and I went to the express lane and had someone check me out, I can't remember the last time I did that. Even used the little divider bar on the belt. It may have been 6-7 years


From my earlier 5 minute research, it seems self checkouts at CVS stores are present based on location. I can't stand self checkouts. Those computer ladies can be difficult and confusing. Plus, they make me bag all the sheet myself.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby bh on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:23 am

Yeah, I didn't realize how bleak western PA looked until I left. Every time I go back to visit, it's a shock.

I did see this on NPR today. Hopefully the optimistic tone of the article is the truth. It would be a welcome boost to this country.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014 ... -reshoring.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby BigMcK on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:34 am

I love to watch American Pickers. What they rescue, and show the history of manufactured goods from yor, means something. Out west, we buy history in an antique mall from someone from the east. Or from the Gold Rush. When we are back east, the wife looks for stuff she may know from youth.
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