123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:18 am

I posted in this forum a couple of weeks ago about a buddy of mine who had a job offer working closer to home for 21 days straight and then 2 days off. We're in SC, a Right to Work state, and he felt it was a fair job with better pay...so he took the job. As advertised, he is 10 days into his 21 day stretch. But get this - the only days he can take off are Saturday and Sunday. He started on a Monday. His work "period" ends on a Sunday. So he has to work until Friday, or 26 days straight. And that's if no one calls off on the weekend he's supposed to have off. I just don't know if I could handle that. The good thing is that he is home at 5 each day, and 3 on Sundays. His previous job was 12 hour shifts, so he would come home and have an hour or so with his kids before they had to go to bed.

I was sad to hear Willow Run (in Michigan) had closed several years ago as an automotive factory. It was built to assemble B-24 Liberators during World War II and was one of the largest factories in the country. Whole communities built up around it, and GM used it until 2011 or so. So much history, now a warehouse for parts storage.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby BigMcK on Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:38 am

So, do you feel your friend made the right move for him and his family?

Sorry if you answered before.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:43 pm

His wife is having doubts already. They have four kids, too. He seems to like the short commute, and the company is much more stable, so time will tell.

He claims the pay is almost 40% more than his previous job, for a similar set of tasks.

Also, the long schedule is only for concentrated runs of new products and can last up to two years. It isn't a permanent thing, but they are offering a new product that they are trying to mass produce to get to vendors....I'm assuming this is what happens when MS or Sony launch a new console.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:38 pm

BigMcK wrote:
mac5155 wrote:UPS has been working without a contract now for 6 months.


Maybe UPS is without a ratified new bargaining agreement? In my experience, even an expired 'contract' allows management and labor to keep the doors open If bargaining talks are underway. Wages, Benefits, Pensions, work Conditions, are in play, but day-to-day operations (Seniority, Safety, Procedures, Policies) follow the same guidelines as under the latest ratified agreement -- even if expired.


They have a few supplements that are holding up the master contract being signed. Mainly, IBT members @ UPS seem to think that they deserve the massive profits that UPS is bringing in and shouldn't have to pay for a downgrade in their healthcare. I guess it's true to some point but I'd rather skip a 70 cents an hour raise and have my company invest 10 million in a new technology that is going to bring in more profit thus giving me better job security.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby pfim on Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:01 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:I think people just look at Owners/CEOs/The high ups at large corporations as already being filthy rich. So shutting down a small town factory or something to go make money elsewhere looks greedy. Its not right really, but I just think on the outside thats what it looks like. I do the same with pro athletes. A guy making 6 million a year goes somewhere to make 8. Yeah you can't blame someone for taking a higher salary but at the same time its like "how much money do you need?'

I dont even know if thats a correct comparison to this story at all, but I think thats the way people always feel. Unless a company is making a negative profit, shutting a division down and going elsewhere always looks bad.


Well, the executives in this instance work for the Board of Directors which are elected by shareholders. While I don't hold GE stock directly, I'm sure I do in my investments. I want my investments to do well so if you get a higher return by moving a factory, well, that's what I want.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1484127412

Fagor's bankruptcy is incredibly interesting because, as a co-op, the owners of the business are the workers. I bring it up because of the movement of labor, specifically to Asia. It puts the co-op at an inherent disadvantage because they workers aren't going to vote to move the factories to cheaper labor in Asia as it's competitors can, they'd lose their jobs. Despite having a different culture than a corporation, they are still subject to market forces.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby pensfan1989 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:21 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
Geezer wrote:
Factorial wrote:How about corporate greed:

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.


And now they try to squeeze as much as they can out their workers and close down the plant when they don't get their way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 52094.html

Whether a particular plant is viable pretty much depends on that particular factory. If ,for example, if I had 4 restaurants and 3 were making tons of money and the 4th was unprofitable than why wouldn't I close the 4th? How would it be business greed?

Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.


I work in that industry, and there's a lot more to that plant moving that the unions. The Erie plant is almost 100 years old and is not well equipped to handle the manufacture of the new locomotives. The Texas plant has been much more productive per employee as well compared to Erie. The main GE competitor for locomotives, EMD, is now producing locomotives in Mexico after mothballing its plant in London, Ontario. GE wanted to be closer to Mexico to be more centralized for the North American market. There were several issues with locomotives being delivered to western railroads taking several weeks to move from Erie to Chicago for interchange that customers weren't happy with.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Guinness on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:11 pm

Willie Kool wrote:Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.


Erie's loss; Texas' gain.

When faced with a choice between a higher price and lower price, do you generally go with the more expensive option?
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:45 pm

Guinness wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.


Erie's loss; Texas' gain.

When faced with a choice between a higher price and lower price, do you generally go with the more expensive option?


Why do you live in MD Guinness? There are a few states where you could live and not have to pay any state taxes. Sounds like an irrational decision on your part.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Guinness on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:53 pm

Factorial wrote:
Guinness wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.


Erie's loss; Texas' gain.

When faced with a choice between a higher price and lower price, do you generally go with the more expensive option?


Why do you live in MD Guinness? There are a few states where you could live and not have to pay any state taxes. Sounds like an irrational decision on your part.


The owners of the plant apparently had a choice between a higher labor cost and a lower one. If choosing the lower labor cost is 'greed' (it's not, of course), it's something most people are guilty of.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:01 pm

Guinness wrote:
Factorial wrote:
Guinness wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:Divisions of the Erie GE locomotive plant are in the process of being replaced by a new one in Texas. When the new plant was built, it was strictly for 'overflow' work. In the last contract negotiation, management low balled the union and outright said 'take it or we're moving your jobs to Texas'. The union didn't accept the offer. The jobs are now going to Texas. I have a hard time seeing that as anything other than corporate greed.


Erie's loss; Texas' gain.

When faced with a choice between a higher price and lower price, do you generally go with the more expensive option?


Why do you live in MD Guinness? There are a few states where you could live and not have to pay any state taxes. Sounds like an irrational decision on your part.


The owners of the plant apparently had a choice between a higher labor cost and a lower one. If choosing the lower labor cost is 'greed' (it's not, of course), it's something most people are guilty of.


You conveniently ignored his question.
I'm not surprised, as you obviously have roots there and want to stay. All of us who are human beings can respect that.

However, it's a perfect example of how the labor market is most certainly not fluid and the "if you don't like it, go work work somewhere else" attitude is always extraordinarily lame.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Guinness on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:21 pm

His question and your comment have nothing to do with the question I asked Willie.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:22 pm

Lol
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Guinness wrote:His question and your comment have nothing to do with the question I asked Willie.


So, only you are allowed to ask questions?
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Grunthy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:37 pm

Questions that are actually relevant... :pop:
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:41 pm

Grunthy wrote:Questions that are actually relevant... :pop:


I'm proud to be in the private sector.
How about you?

Maybe Guinny can weigh in on that? :fist:
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Grunthy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:43 pm

columbia wrote:
Grunthy wrote:Questions that are actually relevant... :pop:


I'm proud to be in the private sector.
How about you?

Maybe Guinny can weigh in on that? :fist:



I don't work in the private sector... :pop: :slug:
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:53 pm

Grunthy wrote:I don't work in the private sector.


Yes, we're quite aware of that.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Guinness on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:56 pm

Factorial wrote:
Guinness wrote:His question and your comment have nothing to do with the question I asked Willie.


So, only you are allowed to ask questions?


My question was on topic.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:57 pm

And apparently not indicative of self examination.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Grunthy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:03 pm

columbia wrote:And apparently not indicative of self examination.



There are differences between people and corporations when it comes to places of operation(places of living). To not see that Factorial's question was asinine, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:07 pm

Grunthy wrote:
columbia wrote:And apparently not indicative of self examination.



There are differences between people and corporations when it comes to places of operation(places of living). To not see that Factorial's question was asinine, I don't know what to tell you.


That's the exact the point I've making.
To schluff off the difficulties of those left behind - while cashing a government paycheck - is, well....
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Grunthy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:14 pm

Are you talking about me earning a government paycheck?
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:30 pm

I'm certainly not talking about Francis of Assisi (who appears to have been a great man).
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby Grunthy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:55 pm

columbia wrote:I'm certainly not talking about Francis of Assisi (who appears to have been a great man).



I'm not sure why it would make me care more or less about a person losing their job in the above scenario. You really seem to hate people that are conservative leaning...
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Re: 123 year old plant closing in Warren,Ohio

Postby redwill on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:01 am

Oh my. You call another poster's question "asinine" and then accuse others of being hateful?
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