XXII Olympic Winter Games

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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby viva la ben on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:46 pm

Looking back, maybe Mayor Luke wasn't that bad.

The mayor of Sochi, Russia, says there are no gays in his city, which will host the Winter Olympics next month.

"We don't have them in our town," Anatoly Pakhomov told the BBC in an interview that aired Monday.


http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/sto ... rc=desktop
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:51 pm

viva la ben wrote:"We don't have them in our town," Anatoly Pakhomov told the BBC in an interview that aired Monday.


... as he has the barrel of an AK-47 pointing at the back of his head.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:48 pm

viva la ben wrote:Looking back, maybe Mayor Luke wasn't that bad.

The mayor of Sochi, Russia, says there are no gays in his city, which will host the Winter Olympics next month.

"We don't have them in our town," Anatoly Pakhomov told the BBC in an interview that aired Monday.


http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/sto ... rc=desktop

He's about to be inundated by the feisty buggers. :lol:
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby DudeMan2766 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:01 pm

I dont agree with Russia's views on the matter at all, but I've heard of groups and people planning on protesting and what not (which I believe Russia said will lead to arrests) I dont want to hear any crying from people who do and get into trouble. You can disagree with them all you want, but you can't go into another country and culture to cause a scene and blatently disregard their rules because you don't believe what they believe. You just know its going to happen tho. Theres a lot bigger more dangerous issues and threats to worry about over there in these games than two gay people can't show PDA.

*I really really dont mean to turn it political. I'm almost angry at myself for even making a political post on here. But its a huge topic of discussion with these games. Am I comming off as a jag with that? I just feel people should shut it about Russia's stance on homosexuality, compete in their events, and come home. But I know thats not going to happen. And I dont think that shows me as looking negative on gays. If it does, not my intention.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:07 pm

Maybe I'd agree with you if the Russian people would have a say in the matter.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby DudeMan2766 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:09 pm

That's a good point. I've just heard people and advocates talk over the weeks and say they're going to protest, etc anyway I think thats just a bad move. Go and come home and complain about it. Show support for your beliefs here where you're not going to go to jail.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 pm

I think every nation should have adopted a rainbow on their official team uniforms, or something like that.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:00 am

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story ... gs1-012914
Hope she can someday at least use arms and walk. These incidents are so awful,especially for young people with so much of their life in front of them
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:46 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:I dont agree with Russia's views on the matter at all, but I've heard of groups and people planning on protesting and what not (which I believe Russia said will lead to arrests) I dont want to hear any crying from people who do and get into trouble. You can disagree with them all you want, but you can't go into another country and culture to cause a scene and blatently disregard their rules because you don't believe what they believe. You just know its going to happen tho. Theres a lot bigger more dangerous issues and threats to worry about over there in these games than two gay people can't show PDA.

*I really really dont mean to turn it political. I'm almost angry at myself for even making a political post on here. But its a huge topic of discussion with these games. Am I comming off as a jag with that? I just feel people should shut it about Russia's stance on homosexuality, compete in their events, and come home. But I know thats not going to happen. And I dont think that shows me as looking negative on gays. If it does, not my intention.


So you're against LGBT rights AND freedom of expression, political dissent? Listen, the government told you you couldn't disagree with it, so you had getting locked in jail coming to you. That sounds like a Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, King George-led world if I've ever heard one.

And you may think homosexual rights aren't as big of a deal as "more important things." After all, starvation and AIDS still exist. But people were dying in wars during the Civil Rights Movement as well, but that didn't stop Martin Luther King Jr. and others form advancing their cause. LGBT rights are a huge deal for many. And if we had to prioritize issues by importance (i.e., how many people agree it's important), social change would cease.

You might not have meant to make it political. But your post is quite naive.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:58 pm

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but the idea that its a foreigner's job to change things there is pretty much the reason a lot of world cultures hate America.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:01 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I don't disagree with your sentiment, but the idea that its a foreigner's job to change things there is pretty much the reason a lot of world cultures hate America.

Right. I don't suggest "it's a foreigner's job to change things there." Rather, if people there -- especially citizens -- want to place their views into the marketplace of ideas, criminal punishment is contrary to (at least) democratic values and (perhaps) human rights.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:02 pm

Why should Americans force change in Russia?

Why does it matter to us what they do? Who gives a damn if they don't do what we want them to? Let them be idiots.

I could see your point if the US was the country at fault, but why should Americans impose their opinions on a country that is halfway around the globe?
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby CBear3 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:05 pm

Come on Hammer, if it was illegal to wear black in Iceland and you decided you'd show up in a Steelers jersey you should expect to be thrown in jail. Don't cry to me when you do.

The flip side is feel free to wear that Steelers jersey everywhere else, everyday. Wear it loud and proud. Feel free to tell everybody that Iceland is backwards because they won't let you. Know that with every news story about what you do in Iceland will include the things you said about Iceland being backwards before you got there.

It's not as poetic as Jesse Owens statement, but today's media can do your work for you without risking your life.
Last edited by CBear3 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:05 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't disagree with your sentiment, but the idea that its a foreigner's job to change things there is pretty much the reason a lot of world cultures hate America.

Right. I don't suggest "it's a foreigner's job to change things there." Rather, if people there -- especially citizens -- want to place their views into the marketplace of ideas, criminal punishment is contrary to (at least) democratic values and (perhaps) human rights.


You were responding to someone that suggested people go there and go about their business. You certainly weren't agreeing.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Beveridge on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:05 pm

MRandall25 wrote:but why should Americans impose their opinions on a country that is halfway around the globe?


Where have you been the last 100 years
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:05 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Why should Americans force change in Russia?

Why does it matter to us what they do? Who gives a damn if they don't do what we want them to? Let them be idiots.

I could see your point if the US was the country at fault, but why should Americans impose[sic] their opinions on a country that is halfway around the globe?


Agreed. Russia's stance on homosexuality is archaic and ridiculous, however it is their nation with their rules. It's not our responsibility to change it.

see: War, Iraq
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby DudeMan2766 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:15 pm

That was basically my point. Don't go there and blatently break their rules and expect not to be punished no matter how ridiculous you find their views. If the games were here, and someone from another country did the same because they didnt believe in one of our laws, we sure as hell wouldn't stand for it.


***And Hammer when I said "More important things" to worry about, I meant everyone's safety and rumors of potential terroist threats.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:16 pm

If we were worried about the conduct of the host country, there wouldn't have a Team USA in Beijing.

It unfortunately comes with the territory.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:18 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:That was basically my point. Don't go there and blatently break their rules and expect not to be punished no matter how ridiculous you find their views. If the games were here, and someone from another country did the same because they didnt believe in one of our laws, we sure as hell wouldn't stand for it.


Like suffrage. Suffrage in general, im not being sexist or racist.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:24 pm

I plan on traveling to Qatar in 2020 to protest the use of Sharia law and oppression of women. Who's with me?
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby DudeMan2766 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:29 pm

To the Shadmobile!..
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:32 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:I plan on traveling to Qatar in 2020 to protest the use of Sharia law and oppression of women. Who's with me?


I would, but I'm afraid I can't bear the heat.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:43 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:That was basically my point. Don't go there and blatently break their rules and expect not to be punished no matter how ridiculous you find their views. If the games were here, and someone from another country did the same because they didnt believe in one of our laws, we sure as hell wouldn't stand for it.


***And Hammer when I said "More important things" to worry about, I meant everyone's safety and rumors of potential terroist threats.

What? Columbia University (I think) invited Iranian President Ahmadinejad to speak to the student body. The students pointed out he was an idiot; no one resorted to the penal code or violence. How do we not "stand for it"? Going further, the KKK regularly protests, and the government sets up space for them.

On the final point, sorry -- that's fair.
Last edited by TheHammer24 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:50 pm

CBear3 wrote:Come on Hammer, if it was illegal to wear black in Iceland and you decided you'd show up in a Steelers jersey you should expect to be thrown in jail. Don't cry to me when you do.

The flip side is feel free to wear that Steelers jersey everywhere else, everyday. Wear it loud and proud. Feel free to tell everybody that Iceland is backwards because they won't let you. Know that with every news story about what you do in Iceland will include the things you said about Iceland being backwards before you got there.

It's not as poetic as Jesse Owens statement, but today's media can do your work for you without risking your life.

That's completely different. Laws that have a negative effect are justifiable if they serve important interest. It's illegal to break curfew -- e.g., in Iraq or imagine in Boston during the manhunt -- because it jeopardizes safety. Laws that don't oppress anyone -- e.g., don't wear black -- are legal because the government doesn't need to justify them.

But more importantly, notice the difference in your hypothetical. What if I went to Iceland to protest the black-shirt law while wearing a white shirt, obeying their law my voicing my opinion. If I got arrested, wouldn't it then be problematic.

Imagine Oklahoma bans abortions after 20 weeks (I think they just did and the law was struck down). A doctor that goes and performs an abortion at 25 weeks will be arrested. And sure, no one will feel bad for him. But what if the doctor goes to Oklahoma to protest the law in the capital. If he's arrested then, we would have quite a problem. There's a big difference.

Russia has two bad laws: no gay rights, no political dissent. Both are bad. The former at least remains debatable---the answer has evaded philosophers, theologians, etc. for centuries. But no one defends government censorship anymore. Do they? Do you guys? It feels like you do.

If a country decides to criminalize homosexuality, they can (does Russia?). The United States certainly isn't the most liberal country on this front. I disagree with the law, but there's no "right" answer (yet).

But peaceful protesting shouldn't be illegal.
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Re: XXII Olympic Winter Games

Postby CBear3 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:53 pm

I honor those at Tienanmen Square for standing up for their rights in their country.
If those were Americans doing it I'd think they were stupid and feel bad for their families, but not necessarily them.

Does that make sense?
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