2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby JS© on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:05 pm

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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:08 pm

Morneau, one more than he hit with us so far.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:12 pm

I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby columbia on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:15 pm

Don't confuse how terrible Davis is - and he is - with any decision to bring back Morneau; and it's not clear that he wanted to return.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:21 pm

What ever he is or isn't this year playing in the thin air of Colorado he didn't help us much last year.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:22 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:34 pm

columbia wrote:Don't confuse how terrible Davis is - and he is - with any decision to bring back Morneau; and it's not clear that he wanted to return.


Not confusing the two, perhaps just stating the obvious. Morneau would help this team more so than what is currently there. He may have not wanted to return. I certainly hope the Pirates tried to offer him what he is getting in Colorado though because 6.5 mil is a steal for that guy. If they didnt offer him that atleast then Huntington is an idiot. If he wanted to leave regardless of the money, then so be it. Its the same thing with A.J., if we lost him because he didnt want to return then so be it, but if it was just the money, then Huntington's moves are proving out to be penny wise pound foolish.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:36 pm

Stay classy Cincinnati. Simon's been bleeped about six time in 45 seconds of screen time.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby columbia on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:37 pm

Independent of Morneau, they're definitely not free spenders.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:37 pm

Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.


Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:43 pm

columbia wrote:Independent of Morneau, they're definitely not free spenders.


Not free spenders, frugal, thrifty, cheap....you say tomato, I say "tomahto."
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:44 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.


Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?


Ike: .237/.352/.341, .693 OPS, 98 OPS+
Morneau: .260/.370/.312, .681 OPS, 96 OPS+

Morneau was brought in to provide power. He was put in the cleanup spot. He showed zero power. This year he's having his best year since 2010. Everyone who saw him having this year please raise their hands.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:51 pm

Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.


Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?


Ike: .237/.352/.341, .693 OPS, 98 OPS+
Morneau: .260/.370/.312, .681 OPS, 96 OPS+

Morneau was brought in to provide power. He was put in the cleanup spot. He showed zero power. This year he's having his best year since 2010. Everyone who saw him having this year please raise their hands.


Haha what was Ike brought in to do? The stats are equal at best. If it was a blind look between two players, I'd take the guy with roughly 20 pts better in BA and OBP easily. Raise your hands if you thought Travis Ishikawa was going to be better than Justin Morneau? Because Ishikawa was the original plan.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:10 pm

Frazier hits one home run to advance. They should both be out.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:22 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.


Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?


Ike: .237/.352/.341, .693 OPS, 98 OPS+
Morneau: .260/.370/.312, .681 OPS, 96 OPS+

Morneau was brought in to provide power. He was put in the cleanup spot. He showed zero power. This year he's having his best year since 2010. Everyone who saw him having this year please raise their hands.


Haha what was Ike brought in to do? The stats are equal at best. If it was a blind look between two players, I'd take the guy with roughly 20 pts better in BA and OBP easily. Raise your hands if you thought Travis Ishikawa was going to be better than Justin Morneau? Because Ishikawa was the original plan.

Lambo was the plan. Morneau was terrible last year for the Bucs. If they signed him for 7 mil in January after the display he put on, the yinzers, and yourself I would guess, would have been throwing a fit. Hindsight is 20-20, but I will safely assume I can count on one finger the amount of people who were upset he didn't re-sign here in this thread.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:23 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:
Rocco wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I really wish Morneau was still with the Pirates. A good player and seems like a good guy. Major upgrade at 1st compared to Ike Davis.


Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.


Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?


Ike: .237/.352/.341, .693 OPS, 98 OPS+
Morneau: .260/.370/.312, .681 OPS, 96 OPS+

Morneau was brought in to provide power. He was put in the cleanup spot. He showed zero power. This year he's having his best year since 2010. Everyone who saw him having this year please raise their hands.


Haha what was Ike brought in to do? The stats are equal at best. If it was a blind look between two players, I'd take the guy with roughly 20 pts better in BA and OBP easily. Raise your hands if you thought Travis Ishikawa was going to be better than Justin Morneau? Because Ishikawa was the original plan.


James Loney was the original plan. He signed with Tampa. Corey Hart, Mike Morse and assorted others were plans B-F but they signed elsewhere. Andrew Lambo was Plan G. Then he was really bad in spring training, and got hurt after they gave up on Ishikawa who was Plan H. The Bucs are on Plan I right now.

If you'd take the guy with the slightly worse stats then that's your call. You'd also being taking the guy who is older and with a concussion history. Normally players don't age in reverse like Morneau is doing this year nor do they see their power completely evaporate like what's happening to Ike. The difference in OBP is basically 4 walks or singles. That's not a huge difference. Ike hasn't hit for nearly enough power. He's been just as bad as Morneau was last year with the Pirates. Morneau's batting average last year was empty calories.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:25 pm

Will Carroll @injuryexpert · 5h

Pretend you're the GM of your favorite team. What do you offer for David Price? Word is one MLB-ready SP, one top hitter, +1 gets it done.


Glasnow, Bell and a decent minor league pitcher?
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:27 pm

Rocco wrote:The Bucs are on Plan I right now.

Plan Ike From Outer Space
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:27 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:
Ike Davis was a welcome improvement, I applaud management for getting that move done

April 22nd, how about that
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:28 pm

NashvilleCat wrote:
Rocco wrote:The Bucs are on Plan I right now.

Plan Ike From Outer Space


I realized after I wrote that post that I ended up on I for Ike. It was unintentional. My point was that Ike was a fall-back plan, and at this point there's a non-zero chance he isn't tendered in the offseason and Pedro gets moved to first.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:31 pm

Rocco wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:
Rocco wrote:The Bucs are on Plan I right now.

Plan Ike From Outer Space


I realized after I wrote that post that I ended up on I for Ike. It was unintentional. My point was that Ike was a fall-back plan, and at this point there's a non-zero chance he isn't tendered in the offseason and Pedro gets moved to first.

Pedro to first would be a relief for the season ticket holders on the first base side. It's like watching Peter Lee come in for a slap shot. You could always tell the regulars behind the net because they were preparing to duck when he let go.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby ulf on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:32 pm

NashvilleCat wrote:
Rocco wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:
Rocco wrote:The Bucs are on Plan I right now.

Plan Ike From Outer Space


I realized after I wrote that post that I ended up on I for Ike. It was unintentional. My point was that Ike was a fall-back plan, and at this point there's a non-zero chance he isn't tendered in the offseason and Pedro gets moved to first.

Pedro to first would be a relief for the season ticket holders on the first base side. It's like watching Peter Lee come in for a slap shot. You could always tell the regulars behind the net because they were preparing to duck when he let go.

We used to have season tix in row 8 on the first base side. My brother got hit in the forehead by a Barmes overthrow a couple years ago. He was on his phone, but was kinda funny since he was okay.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:35 pm

Morneau last year in Pittsburgh was marginally worse than Davis has been this year. Going to Colorado when Colorado was the only team that really wanted him has revitalized him.[/quote]

Marginally worse how? The numbers dont show that. Morneau in his short stint was batting .260 with .370 OBP. Not ideal for they brought him in for, but he was getting on base pretty well. Davis is .237/.352. How is that better?[/quote]

Ike: .237/.352/.341, .693 OPS, 98 OPS+
Morneau: .260/.370/.312, .681 OPS, 96 OPS+

Morneau was brought in to provide power. He was put in the cleanup spot. He showed zero power. This year he's having his best year since 2010. Everyone who saw him having this year please raise their hands.[/quote]

Haha what was Ike brought in to do? The stats are equal at best. If it was a blind look between two players, I'd take the guy with roughly 20 pts better in BA and OBP easily. Raise your hands if you thought Travis Ishikawa was going to be better than Justin Morneau? Because Ishikawa was the original plan.[/quote]
Lambo was the plan. Morneau was terrible last year for the Bucs. If they signed him for 7 mil in January after the display he put on, the yinzers, and yourself I would guess, would have been throwing a fit. Hindsight is 20-20, but I will safely assume I can count on one finger the amount of people who were upset he didn't re-sign here in this thread.[/quote]

Lambo being the plan is just as bad of an idea if not worse. I never thought much of him. Haha dont include me as a yinzer. I'm from far from one and I dont live in Pittsburgh either. I wouldnt have thrown a fit for them spending 7 mil on Morneau. I thought it was a reasonable signing then and its more than reasonable now. His numbers as a Pirate were slightly disappointing in my eyes, but hardly a poor showing in my opinion. I would have had no problem bringing him back for that amount.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby BleuLineLady on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:38 pm

ulf wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:
Ike Davis was a welcome improvement, I applaud management for getting that move done

April 22nd, how about that


He is/was an improvement over Ishikawa. My opinion is consistent on that. Is he playing well enough right now...so far...not really. I was hopeful for more, but we'll see.
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Re: 2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:38 pm

Looks like Rocco has met his match.
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