Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:09 am

Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby dodint on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:13 am

mac5155 wrote:Westmoreland county requires you pay for the license but no vaccinations or anything are required.


To me, this is dumb. It's a cash grab that doesn't add any value for anyone and does annoy me as meaningless government intervention.

shafnutz05 wrote:There are plenty of valid stories of police brutality to animals, and I am fully aware of them. It just sickens me to see an irresponsible deadbeat immediately cry police brutality and demand justice and all of this other crap, when any mention of their own irresponsibility is met with a shrug.


Agree completely. The challenge of being a Pit owner/advocate is dealing with **** head Pit owners. My prior neighbor had a Pit they kept chained in their yard and they would come by every so often and drop a pile of food and water and the leave for long stetches of time. When the fence fell over in a hurricane and we found out our dog got along with that dog, we almost took it with us when we moved. I wouldn't have been morally right and our new place only allowed for one dog, but I still think about that dog often and it makes me sad. Thats a digression and not really important here but my point was that bad dog owners create bad dogs, and put police in a situation where they're justified. However; this perpetuates the stereotype that all dogs are bad and its okay to kill any dog, so these bad owners are doing a much broader disservice than just the one the bring upon themselves and their pets.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby mac5155 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:16 am

dodint wrote:
mac5155 wrote:Westmoreland county requires you pay for the license but no vaccinations or anything are required.


To me, this is dumb. It's a cash grab that doesn't add any value for anyone and does annoy me as meaningless government intervention.


I see your point. I don't like it either, but im a law abiding citizen. Also though I think its BS that you can have 30 cats without a license but a dog must have one.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby mac5155 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:17 am

PensFanInDC wrote:Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?


I look at it this way - if it was a human, they would have used a taser.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby dodint on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:19 am

PensFanInDC wrote:Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?


Give pets rights to the point that when they're shot there is some kind of accountability on the back end. I feel that anyone, police or otherwise, that discharges a weapon in a residential area ought to have to justify it or face consequences. It's just way too easy for police to shoot a pet and walk away with zero consequences. I won't post the video here because it is just dramatic fodder, but the no-knock raid on the wrong house in California where they started the raid by shooting the dog is the definitive poster case for this behaivor. They ran into the house, shot the dog, and then held the kids and parents at gunpoint while the dog lay dying in front of the kids. At the wrong house. F-F-S.

Tangential, but you're not allowed to use a TASER on someone that is under the influence of drugs. I have no idea on the policy for using them against 40lb dogs.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:33 am

mac5155 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?


I look at it this way - if it was a human, they would have used a taser.


Would a taser work on a dog or would it kill it?

dodint wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?


Give pets rights to the point that when they're shot there is some kind of accountability on the back end. I feel that anyone, police or otherwise, that discharges a weapon in a residential area ought to have to justify it or face consequences. It's just way too easy for police to shoot a pet and walk away with zero consequences.


100% in agreement
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby mac5155 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:37 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
mac5155 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:Since I'm not a police officer I can't speak for the situation but it seems to me that in that line of work you are trained to protect yourself with all means necessary. If the officer truly felt threatened then he was in the right. But how can we establish what someone else was feeling in that moment?


I look at it this way - if it was a human, they would have used a taser.


Would a taser work on a dog or would it kill it?



I don't know the answer to that but it wouldn't hurt to try if I'm a LEO. What's the worst that can happen?
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:45 pm

In the unlikely event that I had to choose between the two, I'd rather see my dog tasered than shot.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:49 pm

What is this about Pit Bulls being dangerous? If you get one that was in a dog fighting ring for a few months, sure. Otherwise, raised with a competent owner, they are pretty close to the ideal pet to have for a family.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:05 pm

ib4 media
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:09 pm

The size, the strength, the selected genetic predisposition to attack other moving creatures. Every year they are involved in the most fatal attacks by far according to the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... eeds-a.pdf
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:13 pm

Tasers on dogs are tricksy subjects. It's not just a simple matter of pointing the taser and shooting. Dogs are horizontally-oriented, not vertically (like humans), so you can't employ the device the same way; you have to do it gangsta style. Dogs have a fraction of the surface area to target compared to humans. They move much more erratically, making hitting them in the first place much more challenging. You have to get much closer to a dog to hit it with both probes than you do with a human. And if you only hit it with one probe, all you're doing is inflicting pain on the animal.... which is not really what you want to do in that kind of situation.

Finally...... tasers only work for a short period of time. So say you've successfully managed to tase the animal; in 20-30 seconds, the charge will stop. Now what? There's no guarantee that the animal won't go into fight-or-flight mode. So what you've done is take a situation that might be better resolved with proper behavioral activity, and escalated it into a situation where you now have a terrified, wounded animal on your hands, that might instinctively feel compelled to lash out, and you will now - legitimately - have to shoot it to protect yourself and/or those around you.

Tasers on dogs = not really a good idea.

dodint wrote:Give pets rights to the point that when they're shot there is some kind of accountability on the back end. I feel that anyone, police or otherwise, that discharges a weapon in a residential area ought to have to justify it or face consequences.

The officer will have to face an inquiry to determine if he discharged his weapon with proper authority. Will be interesting to hear the resolution of this as there were children out and about in the neighborhood, and the eyewitness accounts differ from the officer's report of the incident.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:14 pm

Shooting them isn't a particularly good idea, either.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:18 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:The size, the strength, the selected genetic predisposition to attack other moving creatures. Every year they are involved in the most fatal attacks by far according to the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... eeds-a.pdf

Please tell me what the hell a "pit bull-type" dog is.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:20 pm

columbia wrote:Shooting them isn't a particularly good idea, either.

No, of course not. But I'm saying tasing them instead of properly addressing the situation from a behavioral perspective might lead to a situation where a dog that should have been relatively easy to control now has to be shot. Tasing increases the possibility of shooting.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:26 pm

Look at 1 study about the kind of person that gets a pit bull before throwing around statistics about the dogs.

Unless you have a wolf, anything the dog does is on it's owner/family/whatever you want to call it. Actually if its a wolf, its still on the owner.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:36 pm

I think the problem with pit bulls is that, because of their reputation, they tend to be bought by a lot of total dirtbags. Hence the vicious cycle.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby dodint on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:38 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:The size, the strength, the selected genetic predisposition to attack other moving creatures. Every year they are involved in the most fatal attacks by far according to the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... eeds-a.pdf

Please tell me what the hell a "pit bull-type" dog is.


This. No such breed. And if a dog bites and isn't captured, it becomes an anecdotal "Pit Bull" bite because many low information individuals equate bad dog with pitbull, so any dog from 35-70lbs that shows aggression is automatically a pitbull, which isn't even a thing. The CDC is reputable, but that study is based on "breed reported" which stands only to reinforce the stereotype. All that aside, the report contradicts itself a few times over to the point that I would use it with extreme caution if I were basing any research on it.

Amusing nugget:
Indeed, since 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people,including Dachshunds, a Yorkshire Terrier, and aLabrador Retriever.


My stance on the Pit Bull umbrella of dogs is still the same. All dogs have the capability to inflict harm if mistreated or put under unusual stress. Pit Bull type dogs just happen to have the tools to do more harm and need to be afforded a little more consideration than obviously harmless dogs. I have an APBT/JRT mix with zero kills on her record because she's well fed, well kept, and isn't put in the situation where that is encouraged.

My step-sister owned a wolf hybrid and she lived in an apartment in Ohio. I can't think of a more irresponsible combination, at least she doesn't have it anymore.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:42 pm

The woman who ran the obedience class we did with our first dog had a part wolf dog thing. It was actually pretty awesome. One did not get the impression that f**king about with that dog was a good idea.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:55 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
pittsoccer33 wrote:The size, the strength, the selected genetic predisposition to attack other moving creatures. Every year they are involved in the most fatal attacks by far according to the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... eeds-a.pdf

Please tell me what the hell a "pit bull-type" dog is.


I would assume this and/or a cross that retains the massive jaws? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) is a medium-sized, solidly built, short haired dog whose early ancestors came from England and Ireland. It is a member of the molosser breed group. The American Staffordshire Terrier and The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) by breed are from the same lineage; Staffordshires was the name given by AKC, and American Pit Bull Terriers by UKC. The real difference between the two breeds is 6–8" in height and 25–35 lb in weight; the American Staffordshire Terrier being the larger of the two.


Image
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:01 pm

The argument against pit bulls is idiotic. I will say again...violent, jerkoff personalities are attracted to pit bulls because of the unfair reputation they have. These jerkoff owners are often abusive, and teach the pit bull to act violently as a result. As a result, the reputation gets worse. There is no inert personality flaw in a pit bull that makes them more prone to violence than a rottweiler, german shepherd, chow, etc.

Our previous neighbors had a pit bull that was about a year old...our goldendoodle ran over there one day while I was outside with her....they proceeded to frolic, roll around, etc for 15 minutes. The pit bull kept rolling onto his back in a submissive gesture.

It is 100% the demographics of pit bull owners, not the dogs themselves.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:06 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:It is 100% the demographics of pit bull owners, not the dogs themselves.


100% is incorrect but the sentiment is accurate. Dogs will always have some semblance of their former "wolf" roots. They ALL have the potential to become violent for "no reason". It's just not very likely.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:06 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:It is 100% the demographics of pit bull owners, not the dogs themselves.


100% is incorrect but the sentiment is accurate. Dogs will always have some semblance of their former "wolf" roots. They ALL have the potential to become violent for "no reason". It's just not very likely.


True enough.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:14 pm

I would be willing to bet if you took 100,000 pit bulls from the ghetto and 100,000 pit bulls from good homes you would see an astounding correlation to what Shaf was saying.
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Re: Rescue has woman apply to adopt her own dog

Postby dodint on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:18 pm

I'm just waiting for the PB stigma to cycle out. I think it might have if it weren't for Vick. But before PBs were cool to piss on, it was Rots. And before that, German Shepherds. I think the GS thing was probably fixed since they do so much as working dogs for police and military.
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