History Thread

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History Thread

Postby Geezer on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:37 pm

This likely won't generate enough interest but I wanted to mark the 100th anniversary of the start of WWI; 8/4/1914. I also recently got a publication from February 1914 that had many interesting historical articles(to history buffs anyway). These two didn't seem to merit two threads.

There are some WWI specials that have recently been on the History Channel and other cable channels. The "Great War" resulted in so much slaughter because of new technologies that tactics didn't catch up with; the machine gun, air power used to bomb civilians, modern submarines, poison gas.
The war also had the first modern genocide with the Turks murdering about 1 million Armenian civilian (Christians) by a forced death march with no food, water,medicine or shelter.
Serbia also lost 650,000 civilians due to disease and starvation. Serbia lost 1.1 million people out of a population of 4.5 million.
I never thought of Italy as a big player in WWI but they lost 650.000 KIAs and had another 950,000 wounded.

WWI also marked the end of several empires; Austo Hungary, the Ottoman empire. Monarchies also disapperaed; some to democratic forms; Russia's Czars being replaced by communism.

There was a real interesting show about the last day of WWI. The French general Foch who met with the German committee hated Germany. He had lost a son and son-in-law in the war. The armitice could have ended 4 days earlier but Foch wanted to jerk the Germans around first.
The last day of the war was set to end at 11 am. Allied commanders ordered attacks up to the last minute resulting in thousands of deaths with no impact. The post war territory lines were set in the armitice. So many American families were upset that their relatives were killed in the last few hours of the war that they complained to congress. When questioned the American generals basic response was that no one ordered them not to attack. It ended up with a whitewash with the Dems saying it was a Republican attempt to emberass Woodrow Wilson.

I became interested in WWI because I had 5 great uncles who fought in this war; two of whom were gassed. And by fought I mean they were all in combat units at the front.Somehow they all lived although one great uncle who was gassed died a few years later from the lung damage. He was sent to live in Arizona because doctors told him he'd breathe better there.
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Re: History Thread

Postby redwill on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:44 pm

It's always nice to read history commentary which cites "a real interesting show."
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Re: History Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:44 pm

Pretty interesting. I had heard of the fighting till the armistice but didn't realize the genocide aspect.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:52 pm

Just did a paper in college on WW1. I find it incredibly fascinating and not enough is publicized about that war. At least not compared to WW2
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Re: History Thread

Postby Geezer on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:53 pm

redwill wrote:It's always nice to read history commentary which cites "a real interesting show."

Glad you enjoyed it. I never understood why you dog my posts so much but whatever floats your little boat.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Geezer, if you have any links to videos on this subject, please share. I'll do my part in that capacity as well.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:11 pm

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Re: History Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:16 pm

I'm interested in learning/talking about history, but i'm not sure how to translate that into this thread.
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Re: History Thread

Postby redwill on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:21 pm

Geezer wrote:
redwill wrote:It's always nice to read history commentary which cites "a real interesting show."

Glad you enjoyed it. I never understood why you dog my posts so much but whatever floats your little boat.


Do I? I can't think of a time I've ever responded to you. But maybe so.
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Re: History Thread

Postby count2infinity on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:23 pm

Any history facts that you were really surprised when you heard them? One of the biggest for me was that Japan killed more people in WWII than the Germans did. In fact they were far, far more ruthless than the Nazis were. I don't remember learning anything about their activity in China or the Philippines in school. All I recall is Pearl Harbor and the American involvement after that.
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Re: History Thread

Postby columbia on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:26 pm

Just as no one can compare to Chairman Mao in terms of pure butchery.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Factorial on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:27 pm

Best WWI band:

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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:27 pm

count2infinity wrote:Any history facts that you were really surprised when you heard them? One of the biggest for me was that Japan killed more people in WWII than the Germans did. In fact they were far, far more ruthless than the Nazis were. I don't remember learning anything about their activity in China or the Philippines in school. All I recall is Pearl Harbor and the American involvement after that.


Follow @RealTimeWWII on twitter. It gives the grim reality of what really happened on all fronts, day by day throughout the war. What Japan did was absolutely insane and the people who say we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on them have no idea who we were dealing with at the time.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Geezer on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Bioshock wrote:Geezer, if you have any links to videos on this subject, please share. I'll do my part in that capacity as well.

http://shop.history.com/100-years-of-ww ... wwi_072314
The one they have for sale seems like it covers a recent 4 parter on their channel. These were Armored Beasts, Clouds of Death, Last Day of WWI, Massive Air Attacks. They have those 4 on demand along with World War I Tech, WWI Jutland and WWI Somme.
There are others that I have written down somewhere. Some of the others dealt with the political aftermath as well as the role of the Eurprean colonies in the war.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Geezer on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:34 pm

count2infinity wrote:Any history facts that you were really surprised when you heard them? One of the biggest for me was that Japan killed more people in WWII than the Germans did. In fact they were far, far more ruthless than the Nazis were. I don't remember learning anything about their activity in China or the Philippines in school. All I recall is Pearl Harbor and the American involvement after that.

They may have killed as many civilians as the Germans. They killed hundreds of thousands of Filipinos. At the start of their war in China they killed 200,000 Chinese civilians in what was known as the rape of Nanking.
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Re: History Thread

Postby count2infinity on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:34 pm

Always a cool watch:

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Re: History Thread

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:36 pm

This thread has a lot of potential. Thank you Geezer.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Willie Kool on Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Bioshock wrote:What Japan did was absolutely insane and the people who say we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on them have no idea who we were dealing with at the time.


:thumb: Those crazy ******* would probably have fought to the last man.

I know I wouldn't be here if we hadn't dropped the bomb. My grandfather's unit, having just finished fighting in The Philippines, was told to prepare for the invasion of the Japanese mainland.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:24 pm

One thing that grinds my gears about WW2 in the American education system is that they teach kids America won the war and saved the day. They really don't touch on Britain's and Russia's significance or anyone else for that matter. At least that was my experience growing up.

And Germany was never going to win that war, even if the United States had stayed out of it. They were living on borrowed time the moment they attack Russia regardless of anyone else's involvement.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Bioshock on Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:28 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
Bioshock wrote:What Japan did was absolutely insane and the people who say we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on them have no idea who we were dealing with at the time.


:thumb: Those crazy ******* would probably have fought to the last man.

I know I wouldn't be here if we hadn't dropped the bomb. My grandfather's unit, having just finished fighting in The Philippines, was told to prepare for the invasion of the Japanese mainland.


Yep, it was called Operation Downfall and the projections for casualties involved in the invasion of Japan ranged from 1.7 to 4 million allied troops, depending on whether Japan would guess right on where the Allies would attack from. Later on, it was found that the Japanese had guessed correctly.
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:56 pm

Bioshock wrote:
Willie Kool wrote:
Bioshock wrote:What Japan did was absolutely insane and the people who say we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on them have no idea who we were dealing with at the time.


:thumb: Those crazy ******* would probably have fought to the last man.

I know I wouldn't be here if we hadn't dropped the bomb. My grandfather's unit, having just finished fighting in The Philippines, was told to prepare for the invasion of the Japanese mainland.


Yep, it was called Operation Downfall and the projections for casualties involved in the invasion of Japan ranged from 1.7 to 4 million allied troops, depending on whether Japan would guess right on where the Allies would attack from. Later on, it was found that the Japanese had guessed correctly.


Holy ****
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:07 am

Ridiculous how dangerous nationalism can be.

Kind of the reason why I don't care about the national anthem, pledge of allegiance, etc. All they do is help reinforce an artificial divide between me and a Russian person or me and a Zimbabwean.
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Re: History Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:12 am

Bioshock wrote:One thing that grinds my gears about WW2 in the American education system is that they teach kids America won the war and saved the day. They really don't touch on Britain's and Russia's significance or anyone else for that matter. At least that was my experience growing up.

And Germany was never going to win that war, even if the United States had stayed out of it. They were living on borrowed time the moment they attack Russia regardless of anyone else's involvement.


While our history teachers certainly made it seem like USA was the hero that came in and saved the day, I did have one teacher that strongly stressed how bad of a move attacking Russia was, and considered that to be the biggest mistake the Germans made in the war.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Gaucho on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:38 am

No doubt.
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Re: History Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:43 am

man's reach exceeds his grasp or something like that
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