PensFanInDC wrote:Any military that embarks on a land war with Russia during the winter is automatically off the list IMO. That said I have no idea if the Mongols did the same thing.
MRandall25 wrote:Had they started Operation Barbarossa a few months earlier (March/April), they probably would've been successful with the original plan. Took them from June 22nd to mid-October to reach Moscow, so 3 months or so.
tifosi77 wrote:Their planning was for the operation to be concluded (i.e. Soviets surrendered) by I think October. Winter wasn't something they even felt they needed to worry about.
VIDAL: "As far as I'm concerned, the only sort of pro-crypto-Nazi I can think of is yourself."
BUCKLEY: "Now listen, you queer. Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."
columbia wrote:Watch how the centers of Western culture migrated over 2,000 years
http://qz.com/244999/watch-how-the-cent ... 000-years/
Geezer wrote:In Colorado a 5 month strike had resulted in miners being killed in skirmishes with mine guards. A federal grand jury indicted scores of UMW officials on charges of conspiracy to monopolize labor and restrain trade. A citizen's organization deported 7 men on trial for rioting. They also deported famed labor "agitator" Mother Jones.
Sounds rather questionable from a constitutional standpoint.
Lt. Dish wrote:Excellent thread. I never took a history course I didn't love.
tifosi77 wrote:PensFanInDC wrote:Any military that embarks on a land war with Russia during the winter is automatically off the list IMO. That said I have no idea if the Mongols did the same thing.
Hitler had written about invading Russia in Mein Kampf, as a key component of his interpretation of 'Lebensraum'.
Put in the context of the day, I don't think the decision was nearly as stupid as it ended up being. In other words, given the information at their disposal, I don't question the decision to invade Russia. They saw how incompetently the Soviets fought against the Finns in the winter of '39-'40, coupled with some seriously bad intelligence on the state of the Soviet war machine, and the hot-knife-through-butter efficiency with which the Nazis had steamrolled western Europe...... they thought they'd be in and done by Christmas. Shoot, they had accomplished so much by July '41 (just a month after commencing Operation: Barbossa), the Nazi high command were openly discussing post-surrender plans for visiting Ukraine! But just a few weeks later, the Russians began organizing their first counter attacks, and the rest is history.
Where I question the military wisdom (with my 20-20 goggles strapped to my face) was the decision to forego a direct assault on Moscow in the summer of '41 in favor of sticking to the original Barbossa plan, which called for Leningrad to be taken first. That - unsurprisingly - was entirely Hitler's decision, and I think that's what ultimately caused the operation to fail. If they had gone straight through to Moscow and taken out the capital, I think that might have worked.
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