History Thread

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Re: History Thread

Postby legame on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:20 am

My graduate thesis work is on Lithuanian Nationalism and the creation of the Kingdom of Lithuania, a WWI-era German puppet state that would serve as the groundeork for the creatiob of the first democratic Republic of Lithuania at the end of the war.

Nationalism is absolutely a double edged sword...
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:24 am

I took a 20th Century World History class and I loved it. The first 1/2 of the semester was spent in the 19th century which, on the surface, was confusing, but its important to see what happened in those 100 years to understand why WWI is as important as it is. Nationalism, Zionism, Communism, Russian Revolution, the list goes on. The term 'powder keg' is often used to describe Europe just before WWI. Indeed. The assassination of Ferdinand may have been the spark that set off the powder keg but there were SO MANY other factors. That war was going to happen no matter what.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:48 am

I love history, and especially the history of war. Like some others have said, WWI typically seems to be the "forgotten" war in the US, especially when compared to the Revolutionary, Civil and WWII.

Honestly, I know the basics of WWI, but have become a lot more interested the last few years that the 100th anniversery has come around. I realized that there was mass carnage due to the advanced technology of war, but didn't realize how bad. Also, I knew of the Central powers, but never realized the full impact of the divide of the empires into modern day countries that happened after the war.

I did watch the history channel specials and found them facinating.

I hope during these next four years they have a few more shows celebrating milestones that occurred 100 years ago.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:50 am

count2infinity wrote:
Bioshock wrote:One thing that grinds my gears about WW2 in the American education system is that they teach kids America won the war and saved the day. They really don't touch on Britain's and Russia's significance or anyone else for that matter. At least that was my experience growing up.

And Germany was never going to win that war, even if the United States had stayed out of it. They were living on borrowed time the moment they attack Russia regardless of anyone else's involvement.


While our history teachers certainly made it seem like USA was the hero that came in and saved the day, I did have one teacher that strongly stressed how bad of a move attacking Russia was, and considered that to be the biggest mistake the Germans made in the war.


I remember learning about the overall impact and Russia and Britian, but because the course (at least at my school(s)) was American History, there was definitely more of a focus on the US involvement.

In college I took both a World History Class for the priod of around 1700-1900 and a second world History class from 1900-present and that class definitely touched much more on the worldwide impact.
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:52 am

I think the Korean War is more "forgotten" than WWI but WWI seems to get glossed over quite a bit because, IMO, it's overshadowed by WWII and the full toll of the war was not really felt in the USA. Yes, we lost a lot of lives, but the war didn't touch our soil. WWII is the same way in that regard but it was so big, so bad, and so world changing that it gets the most 'coverage'.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:56 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I think the Korean War is more "forgotten" than WWI but WWI seems to get glossed over quite a bit because, IMO, it's overshadowed by WWII and the full toll of the war was not really felt in the USA. Yes, we lost a lot of lives, but the war didn't touch our soil. WWII is the same way in that regard but it was so big, so bad, and so world changing that it gets the most 'coverage'.


I agree with this.

Korea is definitely "forgotten" as well, especially when compared to Vietnam.
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:00 am

MIMH's US War Power Rankings (in terms of importance to Americans):

1. WWII
2. Revolutionary War
3. Civil War
4. Vietnam
5. Afghan/Iraqi (lumping them together)
6. WWI
7. 1812
8. Mexican-American
9. Spanish-American
10. Korean

Top 3 are pretty interchangeable. Really only put WW2 up top because it's the most recent.
Last edited by MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: History Thread

Postby meow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:01 am

Rev war at 2?? You crazy.
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Re: History Thread

Postby CBear3 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:04 am

legame wrote:My graduate thesis work is on Lithuanian Nationalism and the creation of the Kingdom of Lithuania, a WWI-era German puppet state that would serve as the groundeork for the creatiob of the first democratic Republic of Lithuania at the end of the war.

Nationalism is absolutely a double edged sword...


This may sound ridiculous, but I'd actually like reading that when you're done. My great grandparents came over from Lithuania (1909 and 1913) but passed away before I was old enough to appreciate them.
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:15 am

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:MIMH's US War Power Rankings (in terms of importance to Americans):

1. WWII
2. Revolutionary War
3. Civil War
4. Vietnam
5. Afghan/Iraqi (lumping them together)
6. WWI
7. 1812
8. Mexican-American
9. Spanish-American
10. Korean

Top 3 are pretty interchangeable. Really only put WW2 up top because it's the most recent.


:shock:

1. Rev War
2. 1812
3. Civil War
4. WWII
5. WWI
6. Vietnam
7. Desert Storm
8. Afghan/Iraqi
9. Mexican-American
10. Spanish-American
11. Korean

Without victory in #1 and #2 we are not a nation. Those are my top 2 for that reason.
The Civil War shaped this nation more than any other war (post revolution) so it is #3
WWII has had the bigger impact on the US so it is ranked just above WWI
Vietnam was a lesson learned
Desert Storm was a massive show of firepower and gave our nation a sense of "we cannot be defeated" that was lacking since the end of Vietnam.
Afghan/Iraqi. This will probably move up as time goes on as it it a lesson being taught (but not learned?) and it's shaping the entire world right now.
The Mexican and Spanish wars were basically primer for our involvement in WWI. These are basically our only conflicts between 1865 and 1917.
Korea was the first in our attempt to thwart the evil communist movement. Many died and the war has technically never ended between the North and South.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:16 am

I like PFIDC rankings/reasoning.
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:22 am

I put WWII at 1 because it's what actualized the Rev War and the Civil War. I'm not necessarily sure that without a Rev War we aren't a nation (we could've ended up like Canada/Australia I guess).

After WWII, the US is the strongest nation on the planet. A lot of countries have Revolutionary Wars, but only a few (throughout the history of civilization) have ever come out of a war and been easily declared the most powerful.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:24 am

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:I'm not necessarily sure that without a Rev War we aren't a nation (we could've ended up like Canada/Australia I guess).


EWWW.
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:26 am

I could argue that Russia was DAMN strong after WWII even with the desolation of their country. The USA was still more powerful though for at least a time. It became even for a bit but I don't think Russia ever gained #1 status.

What do you mean by actualized the rev and civ wars? I also am not sure how we would be a nation without the rev war. Maybe this is semantics but I am talking about an independent and sovereign nation not under an umbrella of any crown.

The Revolutionary War is the most significant war this nation has ever fought.
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:31 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I could argue that Russia was DAMN strong after WWII even with the desolation of their country. The USA was still more powerful though for at least a time. It became even for a bit but I don't think Russia ever gained #1 status.

What do you mean by actualized the rev and civ wars? I also am not sure how we would be a nation without the rev war. Maybe this is semantics but I am talking about an independent and sovereign nation not under an umbrella of any crown.

The Revolutionary War is the most significant war this nation has ever fought.


I'm going to make a terrible analogy, but I'm thinking of it like this: the Revolutionary War is graduation from high school, Civil War is graduation from college, WWII is getting a (really nice...let's say software engineering) job. You can't (I don't think) get a engineering job without a college degree, and you'll be hard-pressed to get into college without a high school degree (though it's possible). But the job is the reason why you go to high school and college.
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:40 am

I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:50 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?


the War of 1812 always struck me as not "that important" of a War (just seemed like a desperate attempt by the British) so I wouldn't even say it was a Bachelor's. I guess maybe a transfer to an Ivy?
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Re: History Thread

Postby Nuge on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:51 am

http://www.worldology.com/Europe/europe_history_md.htm

Interesting interactive map of the history of Europe.
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:54 am

also this

Image
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:00 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?


the War of 1812 always struck me as not "that important" of a War (just seemed like a desperate attempt by the British) so I wouldn't even say it was a Bachelor's. I guess maybe a transfer to an Ivy?


They burned down the White House....
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:02 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?


the War of 1812 always struck me as not "that important" of a War (just seemed like a desperate attempt by the British) so I wouldn't even say it was a Bachelor's. I guess maybe a transfer to an Ivy?


They burned down the White House....


I know. I actually had "(the only things that happened were the White House got burned down and Andrew Jackson made a name for himself)" written.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:06 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:also this

Image


:lol:
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Re: History Thread

Postby Hockeynut! on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:14 pm

That's hilarious. :lol:
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Re: History Thread

Postby legame on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 pm

CBear3 wrote:
legame wrote:My graduate thesis work is on Lithuanian Nationalism and the creation of the Kingdom of Lithuania, a WWI-era German puppet state that would serve as the groundeork for the creatiob of the first democratic Republic of Lithuania at the end of the war.

Nationalism is absolutely a double edged sword...


This may sound ridiculous, but I'd actually like reading that when you're done. My great grandparents came over from Lithuania (1909 and 1913) but passed away before I was old enough to appreciate them.


Will do. A bit of a humblebrag, but there are only a handful of people in the U.S. working on the subject, so it's really exciting research for me right now. I should hopefully have it all wrapped up by February or March. I do suggest familiarizing yourself with Lithuanian history. At one point, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth stretched from the Baltic to the Black Sea and from Poland to Moscow. Really interesting stuff and often overlooked by historians and their emphasis on Western Europe.
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Re: History Thread

Postby WDWBurghGooner on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:18 pm

Shouldn't the Seven Years' War/The French and Indian War be on any top 10 list?
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