History Thread

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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:22 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?


the War of 1812 always struck me as not "that important" of a War (just seemed like a desperate attempt by the British) so I wouldn't even say it was a Bachelor's. I guess maybe a transfer to an Ivy?


They burned down the White House....

I have a Canadian friend who still thinks that's awesome. "Remember that time when we kicked your arse?"
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Re: History Thread

Postby stopper40 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:37 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:I can dig that. Using your analogy I would say that it still all comes back to what you did in high school. If you fail out then you end up working for the queen for the rest of your life. What about 1812? Is that your bachelors degree and the civil war is your masters?


the War of 1812 always struck me as not "that important" of a War (just seemed like a desperate attempt by the British) so I wouldn't even say it was a Bachelor's. I guess maybe a transfer to an Ivy?


They burned down the White House....

I have a Canadian friend who still thinks that's awesome. "Remember that time when we kicked your arse?"


Yeah, but Canada wasn't really a country then. Just more of a territory/colony of Britain :D
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:38 pm

WDWBurghGooner wrote:Shouldn't the Seven Years' War/The French and Indian War be on any top 10 list?


I dont think so because they happened pre rev war. It wasn't an american war as much of a British one.
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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:40 pm

Also, my understanding of it is that while the Capitol and Library of Congress were pretty well rooted, the bulk of the damage to el Casa Blanco was confined to the interior, with the worst exterior damage being scorch marks around the windows.
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Re: History Thread

Postby WDWBurghGooner on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:50 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
WDWBurghGooner wrote:Shouldn't the Seven Years' War/The French and Indian War be on any top 10 list?


I dont think so because they happened pre rev war. It wasn't an american war as much of a British one.


It wasn't a British war it was a colonial war. Without that war there is no George Washington (at least in the way that he is viewed as one of the founding fathers of our country). Without that war there is no American revolution because the colonies would have been French. It's pretty much the pre-game to the Revolutionary War.
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Re: History Thread

Postby npv708 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:30 pm

Aaron Burr = severely misunderstood individual.

#shotsfired #doubleentendre
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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:32 pm

One thing that often gets overlooked: George Washington did not have a good record as a field general.

He won victories at Boston (after inheriting a command that had already encircled the British garrison), Trenton/Princeton, and Yorktown (kind of a big one, that). But he almost lost the entire Continental Army on Long Island (famously being 'saved' by a fog that covered their withdrawal from Manhattan), and lost

Granted, in the early days of the war he was dealing with the martial equivalent of the 1980 US men's hockey team vs the Soviet Red Army squad. It was a rabble of farmers and tradesmen fighting what was, at the time, probably the finest professional military that ever existed. And prior to the commencement of the Revolution, the largest force he had ever commanded was about 2,000 strong. So you can take two views of his performance in command: One, he wasn't all that. Two, he was deliberately avoiding prolonged direct action against a far superior enemy force.

Where he excelled, however, was that he was an outstanding leader of men.
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Re: History Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:36 pm

Yeah he kind of effed up at jumonville and effed up even more when building fort necessity.
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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:44 pm

Whoops, just realized I posted that last comment before finishing a thought. Derp.

Do I edit........ or do I leave it mysterious?
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:13 pm

npv708 wrote:Aaron Burr = severely misunderstood individual.

#shotsfired #doubleentendre


As a direct descendant of Hamilton I feel it is my duty to challenge you to a duel.

I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!!

Image
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:16 pm

tifosi77 wrote:...probably the finest professional military that ever existed.


This could be interesting.

What was the finest military pre 20th century? Was it the British Empire of the 16th through 19th centuries? The Mongols? The Romans? The Spaniards?
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Re: History Thread

Postby Mango Salsa on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:25 pm

On day 1 of my junior year in high school my history teacher said "Open your book to page --- and read the paragraph at the top of the page." It was one paragraph on the Vietnam war. He then said "Close your book and put it away. You wont need it again." He, it turns out, was a former Green Beret who served in 'nam and we spent the first half of the year on nothing but Vietnam. The second half of the year we studied WWII.

I made sure to get him again my senior year and we spent THE WHOLE YEAR on the American Civil War. Mr Harris, you were awesome. :thumbsup:
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:27 pm

Mango Salsa wrote:On day 1 of my junior year in high school my history teacher said "Open your book to page --- and read the paragraph at the top of the page." It was one paragraph on the Vietnam war. He then said "Close your book and put it away. You wont need it again." He, it turns out, was a former Green Beret who served in 'nam and we spent the first half of the year on nothing but Vietnam. The second half of the year we studied WWII.

I made sure to get him again my senior year and we spent THE WHOLE YEAR on the American Civil War. Mr Harris, you were awesome. :thumbsup:


History teachers are the best. My brother teaches history at Wooton High School and loves it. Lots of former Pittsburghers teaching at that school...
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:29 pm

WDWBurghGooner wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
WDWBurghGooner wrote:Shouldn't the Seven Years' War/The French and Indian War be on any top 10 list?


I dont think so because they happened pre rev war. It wasn't an american war as much of a British one.


It wasn't a British war it was a colonial war. Without that war there is no George Washington (at least in the way that he is viewed as one of the founding fathers of our country). Without that war there is no American revolution because the colonies would have been French. It's pretty much the pre-game to the Revolutionary War.


Without the Peloponnesian war Athens would've been destroyed and therefore democracy would've ended.

∴the Peloponnesian war is the most important war in US history
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:30 pm

lol. That is kinda where this is headed I guess. I just think there is no more important war in American history than the rev.
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Re: History Thread

Postby newarenanow on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:32 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:As a direct descendant of Hamilton I feel it is my duty to challenge you to a duel.


That's actually pretty cool.
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Re: History Thread

Postby count2infinity on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:35 pm

Direct descendant of Benedict Arnold checking in...
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:37 pm

count2infinity wrote:Direct descendant of Benedict Arnold checking in...


He did what he had to do...
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:37 pm

Direct descendant of some german people, some Italian people, some Polish people, some Scottish people, some Irish people, some English people, etc. etc. checking in.
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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:38 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:...probably the finest professional military that ever existed.


This could be interesting.

What was the finest military pre 20th century? Was it the British Empire of the 16th through 19th centuries? The Mongols? The Romans? The Spaniards?

I specifically phrased it as 'professional' because it wasn't really until the British Empire of the 17th century that there was a notion of a professional military. (At least in the West) I would say the Romans or the Mongols were probably the greatest military force ever (corrected for time period).
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Re: History Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:40 pm

Mango Salsa wrote:On day 1 of my junior year in high school my history teacher said "Open your book to page --- and read the paragraph at the top of the page." It was one paragraph on the Vietnam war. He then said "Close your book and put it away. You wont need it again." He, it turns out, was a former Green Beret who served in 'nam and we spent the first half of the year on nothing but Vietnam. The second half of the year we studied WWII.

I made sure to get him again my senior year and we spent THE WHOLE YEAR on the American Civil War. Mr Harris, you were awesome. :thumbsup:


Did he have you read Dispatches?
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Re: History Thread

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:43 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:...probably the finest professional military that ever existed.


This could be interesting.

What was the finest military pre 20th century? Was it the British Empire of the 16th through 19th centuries? The Mongols? The Romans? The Spaniards?

I specifically phrased it as 'professional' because it wasn't really until the British Empire of the 17th century that there was a notion of a professional military. (At least in the West) I would say the Romans or the Mongols were probably the greatest military force ever (corrected for time period).


I edited that out for a reason :D

I'm curious as to who people think was the finest (or greatest) pre 20th century military. I'd probably go the same as you with Roman or Mongol. Kind of hard to go against the Mongols when a legend grows about your military killing 1.7 million people in an hour (totally did not happen).
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Re: History Thread

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:43 pm

Mango Salsa wrote:On day 1 of my junior year in high school my history teacher said "Open your book to page --- and read the paragraph at the top of the page." It was one paragraph on the Vietnam war. He then said "Close your book and put it away. You wont need it again." He, it turns out, was a former Green Beret who served in 'nam and we spent the first half of the year on nothing but Vietnam. The second half of the year we studied WWII.

I made sure to get him again my senior year and we spent THE WHOLE YEAR on the American Civil War. Mr Harris, you were awesome. :thumbsup:

I had two experiences like that in college. One was a Vietnam War history class that was taught by someone who was also a professor at the U.S. Army War College. She brought in a variety of combat veterans who spoke about their experiences, including one flag officer in the Army who began having a flashback while recounting the story of blue-on-blue air bombardment. That was..... intense. One of the other speakers was a Penn State alum, which was cool. But what was more cool was that he was the last new SEAL sent in-country in like 1972 or whatever it was. He was only a captain, because he had a penchant for speaking his mind, particularly in the way SEALs were mis-used in combat by Higher Authority. He had some particularly choice words for the way Operation: Just Cause was planned and executed. And keep in mind, this was only maybe five or six years after the fact. Anyway, he was awesome.

The other experience was in my history of Nazism and fascism class. The penultimate lecture was a Holocaust survivor. And I find that I'm having a hard time typing now that I am recalling his story in more detail, so I'll stop for now.
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Re: History Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:02 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:I'm curious as to who people think was the finest (or greatest) pre 20th century military. I'd probably go the same as you with Roman or Mongol. Kind of hard to go against the Mongols when a legend grows about your military killing 1.7 million people in an hour (totally did not happen).


I'm a big fan of the Mongols but outside of the Chinese they didn't have much of resistance in the form of an organized nation. You also have the Napoleonic French (largest European empire) and the Macedonian/Greek army under Alexander.
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Re: History Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:07 pm

The comanches.
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