The National Anthem

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The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:43 pm

The series of National Anthem "statements" by a portion of the NFL players will not end well. Not for the players, the owners, Roger "the worm" Goodell, ESPN, nor any of the broadcast networks that rely on the eyeballs of fans (read: ratings) for revenue. ESPN is already in a death spiral. Have fun boys.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby ivand87 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:10 pm

Based on Goodell's statement, maybe they actually will start caring about what their players' views are and what they think, for once. Maybe, just maybe, they'll stop caring SO much about their business. Nah, I'm kidding...
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:37 am

F'ing stand for the Anthem.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Cu11en on Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 pm

Easiest solution is keep the players in the locker room until after the anthem. While this move will initially infuriate both the standers and kneelers, in a few weeks the weekly charade goes away.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:18 pm

Cu11en wrote:Easiest solution is keep the players in the locker room until after the anthem. While this move will initially infuriate both the standers and kneelers, in a few weeks the weekly charade goes away.


Wrong. The easiest solution is to STAND FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM!!!
It should not be a difficult decision either.

From Rooney: "The intentions of Steelers players were to stay out of the business of making a political statement by not taking the field," Rooney posted on the team's web site. "Unfortunately, that was interpreted as a boycott of the anthem — which was never our players' intention."

That is the weakest argument I have ever heard. Can someone please tell me how not coming out for the Anthem is NOT making a political statement? I am done with the NFL. I know that no one cares, but I do. It is a big deal for me to walk away from the NFL. I have watched it religiously for years but I am officially done. I hope there are enough people like me where it stings even the slightest for these players when it matters most.... their next contract.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Zarovich on Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:53 pm

Stop playing the Anthem. Where are we, North Korea?
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Fast B on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:34 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Cu11en wrote:Easiest solution is keep the players in the locker room until after the anthem. While this move will initially infuriate both the standers and kneelers, in a few weeks the weekly charade goes away.


Wrong. The easiest solution is to STAND FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM!!!
It should not be a difficult decision either.

From Rooney: "The intentions of Steelers players were to stay out of the business of making a political statement by not taking the field," Rooney posted on the team's web site. "Unfortunately, that was interpreted as a boycott of the anthem — which was never our players' intention."

That is the weakest argument I have ever heard. Can someone please tell me how not coming out for the Anthem is NOT making a political statement? I am done with the NFL. I know that no one cares, but I do. It is a big deal for me to walk away from the NFL. I have watched it religiously for years but I am officially done. I hope there are enough people like me where it stings even the slightest for these players when it matters most.... their next contract.


ok
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:58 pm

Actually, the easiest solution is to stop playing the anthem before games as our serves no purpose or reason.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby FallenHero96 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:02 am

This "protest" is disgusting. If you want to protest something, fine, do it on your own time. Why do they think disrespecting our anthem will accomplish anything? Why do you think you are making a positive impact on anything by having thousands of fans boooing you?

And what is even more pathetic is watching people attack the Penguins for doing what championship teams have done for years.

I can't believe the level of stupidity in this country when you are attacked for NOT disrespecting the anthem. Unbelievable.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am

The iconic photo of six (6) US Marines raising the flag at Mount Suribachi is what caught my attention. Apparently the Marines thought it important enough to plant the flag.

"According to the official Navy Department Library website, The 36-day (Iwo Jima) assault resulted in more than 26,000 American casualties, including 6,800 dead."

The dead included several in the photo.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Cu11en on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:16 pm

Stand on your head to protest the anthem. Both sides meet their needs and we can get back to football.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Kaizer on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:10 pm

Humperdink wrote:The iconic photo of six (6) US Marines raising the flag at Mount Suribachi is what caught my attention. Apparently the Marines thought it important enough to plant the flag.

"According to the official Navy Department Library website, The 36-day (Iwo Jima) assault resulted in more than 26,000 American casualties, including 6,800 dead."

The dead included several in the photo.


Their protest has nothing to do with marines.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Sigwolf on Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:36 pm

Kaizer wrote:
Humperdink wrote:The iconic photo of six (6) US Marines raising the flag at Mount Suribachi is what caught my attention. Apparently the Marines thought it important enough to plant the flag.

"According to the official Navy Department Library website, The 36-day (Iwo Jima) assault resulted in more than 26,000 American casualties, including 6,800 dead."

The dead included several in the photo.


Their protest has nothing to do with marines.


The national anthem is obviously and inexorably tied to the military. By choosing to tie the protest to the national anthem, they are, by default tying their protest to the military which clearly includes the marines. The myopic view that the current struggle (which is very real) is equivalent to what the military has done and lost to allow this country to exist in it's current state is why there is backlash. There are a lot of people in this country that could get behind the message, but that number is likely more than halved by the medium chosen to portray it. Add in the fact that this "message" is being delivered by people that make more in a year than most people in this country make in their lives... seriously? These athletes have the means and exposure to bring exposure to the problem... the method they are choosing to do so is just... plain... wrong.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Kaizer on Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:25 pm

Their protest has nothing to do with the marines.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:32 am

Kaizer wrote:Their protest has nothing to do with the marines.


If you repeat that phrase often enough, maybe people will begin to believe it. I do not.

There is a reason the VFWs and American Legions of the world are turning off the games where the players have taken a knee. There is a reason why the only one player (Alejandro Villanueva) escaped the tunnel and stood for the anthem. And that reason is the military thinks disrespecting the anthem and flag disrespects what they fought for. And the military includes the Marines.

My stepson was a loadmaster on a C-17 during the Iraq war. The most difficult time he had during his entire time in the war was transporting flag-draped coffins back to the US. That was "flag-draped".

Kaepernick's own words: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Jim on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:38 am

... and your stepson was in the military protecting Kaepernick's right and ability to peacefully protest in any way he sees fit, even if it is an idiotic and illogical demonstration.

This isn't North Korea with forced accepted-only demonstrations of patriatism. That is what the military men and women have fought and died for. Everyones freedom.

FREEDOM, not opression.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:09 pm

" ..... ... and your stepson was in the military protecting Kaepernick's right and ability to peacefully protest in any way he sees fit ..."

I completely agree with that.

And those that protest must be willing to accept the consequences of their actions. Their employers (read: the owners), who turned a blind eye towards the effect it would have on a substantial portion of their customer base, must also be willing to accept the outcome.

(Edited to add: Protesting in your employer's workplace is not a constitutionally protected activity.)
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:49 pm

One of the largest advertisers on the NFL, Anheuser Busch, has opened an 800 line for anyone wishing to express their opinion on the NFL/national anthem/flag.

>>>> 1-800-342-5283 After some verbiage, hit option 1.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Fast B on Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:04 pm

Humperdink wrote:
Kaizer wrote:Their protest has nothing to do with the marines.


If you repeat that phrase often enough, maybe people will begin to believe it. I do not.


He's repeating it because it is the truth. Kaepernick started his silent, peaceful protest to focus on police brutality and mistreatment of black men in America. That has nothing to do with the military, the anthem, or you or your family members. The President chose to insert himself into this conversation and make it about the military when that was never the case. The fact that you now think this was about the military is on you, not on the protesting players. In fact, Kaepernick changed his protest to a kneel-down in response to an Army Ranger's request so that he would appear less disrespectful to the flag.

As a side note, the anthem and the flag are not the property, physical or spiritual, of the military. Full stop. You might not *like* the peaceful protests from Kaepernick and others, but you cannot deny that they are well within their rights to do so (and the NFL has decided to support them as well, should they wish to peacefully protest). Am I less of a citizen because I wasn't in the military? I think not.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:05 pm

Fast B wrote:
Humperdink wrote:
Kaizer wrote:Their protest has nothing to do with the marines.


If you repeat that phrase often enough, maybe people will begin to believe it. I do not.


He's repeating it because it is the truth. Kaepernick started his silent, peaceful protest to focus on police brutality and mistreatment of black men in America. That has nothing to do with the military, the anthem, or you or your family members. The President chose to insert himself into this conversation and make it about the military when that was never the case. The fact that you now think this was about the military is on you, not on the protesting players. In fact, Kaepernick changed his protest to a kneel-down in response to an Army Ranger's request so that he would appear less disrespectful to the flag.

As a side note, the anthem and the flag are not the property, physical or spiritual, of the military. Full stop. You might not *like* the peaceful protests from Kaepernick and others, but you cannot deny that they are well within their rights to do so (and the NFL has decided to support them as well, should they wish to peacefully protest). Am I less of a citizen because I wasn't in the military? I think not.


Let me be kind and say you are misinformed. You have no right to protest at your employer's workplace. Disagree with that? Test my comment by showing up for work Monday wearing an ISIS shirt or carrying a KKK sign. Then go greet the president of the company with a Hitler salute. Or better yet, shove in the company's customer's faces. See how long you last.

The NFL owners were backed into a corner. The tried to placate the players by taking a PC stance and it blew up in their faces. In hindsight, I am sure they would have taken a different route.

It should be noted the NBA does not subscribe to your theory. They have ruled their players will stand for anthem (or else).
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:35 pm

Have a right... don't have a right.... I do not care. What I do care about is MY MONEY and MY TIME. Both of which are no longer spent on the NFL. Those little spoiled idiots can stretch while the Anthem is played for all I care I will not be watching them do it.

Image
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:35 pm

Allow me to address some other demagogic statements you proffered:

"The fact that you now think this was about the military is on you."

Interestingly, members of the military seem to disagree with you. I have not seen any surveys, but I suspect it's by a wide margin.

"As a side note, the anthem and the flag are not the property, physical or spiritual, of the military. Full stop"

The phrase "full stop" was a nice touch, but I have not seen or read that anyone thinks the anthem and flag are the property of the military.

"Am I less of a citizen because I wasn't in the military? I think not."

Is this your argument???? I did not suggest that. Demagoguery at it's finest.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Humperdink on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:40 pm

Interested in "justice for all"? And have a firestorm at the same time? It would be fun to watch.

Have the players recite the Pledge of Allegiance. It ends with: "with liberty and justice for all."

How soon we forget this stuff.

(Edited to add: This was the PA announcer prior to the Ravens/ Steeler game: "Before the singing of the National Anthem, please join Ravens players and coaches and the entire Ravens organization to pray that we as a nation, embrace kindness, unity, equality, and justice for all Americans.)
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:49 pm

Fast B wrote:
Humperdink wrote:
Kaizer wrote:Their protest has nothing to do with the marines.


If you repeat that phrase often enough, maybe people will begin to believe it. I do not.


He's repeating it because it is the truth. Kaepernick started his silent, peaceful protest to focus on police brutality and mistreatment of black men in America. That has nothing to do with the military, the anthem, or you or your family members. The President chose to insert himself into this conversation and make it about the military when that was never the case. The fact that you now think this was about the military is on you, not on the protesting players. In fact, Kaepernick changed his protest to a kneel-down in response to an Army Ranger's request so that he would appear less disrespectful to the flag.

As a side note, the anthem and the flag are not the property, physical or spiritual, of the military. Full stop. You might not *like* the peaceful protests from Kaepernick and others, but you cannot deny that they are well within their rights to do so (and the NFL has decided to support them as well, should they wish to peacefully protest). Am I less of a citizen because I wasn't in the military? I think not.


Kaepernick did it during the anthem. It was done during the anthem to protest America... mainly what he felt was injustice in America. Trump called him and others out for doing it during the Anthem. Trump cited the military who have died and currently protect both their lives and their freedom as he should have. Not sure what argument you are trying to make here but to suggest that the NFL players are choosing the anthem to raise fists, sit, kneel, and stretch as mere coincidence in timing is laughable. Trump is simply calling out these simple-minded idiots.
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Re: The National Anthem

Postby Kaizer on Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:46 pm

Humperdink wrote:Interestingly, members of the military seem to disagree with you. I have not seen any surveys, but I suspect it's by a wide margin.



I agree with him. I dont agree with rednecks using us as a prop to counter a peaceful protest, the very thing they said they wanted so badly after the st louis riots.
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