The National Anthem

[Humperdink]

Amusing series of comments in the Baltimore Sun following the Ravens/Steeler game. (Note: the Ravens played in London the previous week):

> "Incredibly gutless on all fronts.
Nice goings sistas! Study the Star Spangled Banner and where it was written.
You might pick up some real courage. Forget your jive!"

>> "Yep- written in Baltimore while fighting the British. So, in London, Ravens take a knee during our national anthem then stand at attention for the British anthem. DUH!!!"

>>> "Take a knee in England for our National Anthem, then stand tall for theirs.
Another first for Baltimore. The first NFL team to take a knee during the National Anthem in a foreign country.
Boneheads."

>>>> "Have you ever heard of national honor??
You have none."

>>>>> "They don't call us Baltimorons for nothing!"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/rave ... story.html

[Fast B]

The mistake I made was posting yesterday right after the Steeler game (and a few beers), so I came out quite a bit more ranty than I hoped. That said, I'll respond anyway (a little calmer, I hope):

Allow me to address some other demagogic statements you proffered:

"The fact that you now think this was about the military is on you."

Interestingly, members of the military seem to disagree with you. I have not seen any surveys, but I suspect it's by a wide margin.

This is supposition. I'm sure there are military members that feel this way, but I've spoken to a few that don't (which is also an anecdote on my part). I don't think it's safe to conclude on a message board whether all service people feel one way or the other.

"As a side note, the anthem and the flag are not the property, physical or spiritual, of the military. Full stop"

The phrase "full stop" was a nice touch, but I have not seen or read that anyone thinks the anthem and flag are the property of the military.

Somebody said earlier in this very thread:

The national anthem is obviously and inexorably tied to the military.

I am only disputing that statement. Obviously military folk will have a strong attachment to those symbols, and I have no problem with that. That said, the flag and anthem belong to all Americans, not exclusively the military. That's all I'm saying. If you feel that one of them is being disrespected by an athlete, that is still not an attack on the military (unless the protester wanted to make it about the military, in which case I couldn't really disagree).

"Am I less of a citizen because I wasn't in the military? I think not."

Is this your argument???? I did not suggest that. Demagoguery at it's finest.

I think I just got on a roll there.

[Fast B]

You have no right to protest at your employer's workplace.

Of course not. But the NFL has decided not to punish players who protest quietly in this manner.

The NFL owners were backed into a corner. The tried to placate the players by taking a PC stance and it blew up in their faces. In hindsight, I am sure they would have taken a different route.

I suspect things really blew up because the President very loudly made it a big deal, calling for the firing of protestors (which actually does start entering 1st amendment violation territory since he's the head of state).

It should be noted the NBA does not subscribe to your theory. They have ruled their players will stand for anthem (or else).

Okay. I never argued that employers didn't have that right.

In any case this wasn't an issue at all in 2008, before the DoD starting paying the NFL for all this overt patriotism. I don't really get why we need to hear the national anthem before (non-Olympic) sporting events anyway; it's even more ridiculous in hockey when players are from all over the world (mostly Canada I guess).

I suspect we're not going to come to a consensus here though, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

[Jim]

And those that protest must be willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

That part is always forgotten.

[Humperdink]

This forum is obviously and inexorably tied to the Penguins. It's starts Wednesday. Cheers.

[Fast B]

This forum is obviously and inexorably tied to the Penguins. It's starts Wednesday. Cheers.

[Humperdink]

Morning humor.

Four (4) recent Washington Post Headlines:

> Sept 24 "The NFL Beat Trump. Soundly"

> Oct 3 "Football Ratings Down on Weekend of Boycott"

> Oct 10 "Trump Calls for End to NFL Tax Breaks"

> Oct 10 "Roger Goodell Says NFL Believes Players Should Stand During the National Anthem"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10 ... headlines/

[Jim]

At Caps game this year they are still yelling "O" and "red" during the anthem, literally interrupting the singing. Isn't that disrespecting the flag, anthem and the singer? Where is the public outrage???

[Humperdink]

At Caps game this year they are still yelling "O" and "red" during the anthem, literally interrupting the singing. Isn't that disrespecting the flag, anthem and the singer? Where is the public outrage???

Very good question(s). Permit me to answer them this way. I think there is a difference between "lack of respect" and "disrespect".

Let me give you an example. When the Olympic medals at the medal ceremony are awarded, the national anthems of all three countries are played. Typically, everyone stands for all three anthems. Why do they do that? Obviously, it's not allegiance. I think it's respect. I am sure there some are some folks, for whatever reason, do not stand. To me that is a sign of lack of respect. They are not raising a fist or giving the one fingered salute. It's just not important to them.

Being disrespectful takes it to a different level. It's deliberate, focused, and meant to send a message.

[Humperdink]

Cowboy owner Jerry Jones is temporarily off the hook this week with his threat to bench players who do not stand. The Cowboys have a bye this week.

[no name]

I watch all sports as an escape from my everyday dull life. If I wanted to watch a protest or rally I would find cause a gave a crap about and went there. In the words of the great Mike Sullivan "just play".

[Humperdink]

The NFL owners are befuddled.

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id ... e-meetings

[Humperdink]

The early NFL games yesterday had a grand total of three (3) kneelers.