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Politics... have at it!!!

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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Southern Fan on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:04 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Southern Fan wrote:Confederate statues, based on a quick look at the internet, were built in the post Reconstructionist period, reaching its peak in the 1910s during the presidency of arguably the most racist president ever, Woodrow Wilson. Most of these statues were approved, built and funded by members of the Democratic Party during the Jim Crow era. If these people want to fix their mistake and apologize for the error and remove them, then let them. They created the problem.


Southern Fan, unfortunately, they're dead.


To clarify. Take them down. No real significance. Haven’t seen too many statues of World War II Germans and Japanese. Just a bunch of people taking advantage of the politics of their era to build them in the first place.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:21 am

theblackarts wrote:
Humperdink wrote:What do John Greenleaf, Matthias Baldwin, Adm. David Farragut, Gen. George Thomas, and Robert Gould Shaw have in common? They were abolitionists whose statues were recently defaced or destroyed by card-carrying members of the democrat party's base. And I see Abraham Lincoln's statue in Boston is on the chopping block.

History? We don't need to study no stinkin' history.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ant ... ng-fathers


If some protesters didn't do their homework, does that cancel out the cries of those that did?


Your two-fold comment surprises me.

"Some protesters didn't do their homework" Translation? Some uninformed protesters destroyed monuments and statues, but tsk tsk. Shoot first ask questions later so to speak. Whatever, I guess.

It's the second part of your comment that is revealing.

"does that cancel out the cries of those that did" So the informed protesters, those that went after the evil statues/monument with torches and sledge hammers, are acceptable because they are aggrieved.

If in your view violence against these objects is acceptable, would it be okay to destroy slave owner Thomas Jefferson's Monticello?
There are slave quarters on site. How about the other founders who were slave owners? Level their properties also?

Slippery slope? The protesting democrats are on it. Violence begets violence. I suspect progressives would call this progress.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:44 am

Humperdink wrote:
Your two-fold comment surprises me.

"Some protesters didn't do their homework" Translation? Some uninformed protesters destroyed monuments and statues, but tsk tsk. Shoot first ask questions later so to speak. Whatever, I guess.


We are witnessing decades of anger boiling over, so yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Good observation!

Humperdink wrote:It's the second part of your comment that is revealing.

"does that cancel out the cries of those that did" So the informed protesters, those that went after the evil statues/monument with torches and sledge hammers, are acceptable because they are aggrieved.


Would I prefer they meet with their governor and request to have it removed etc? I'm sure they have. Again, you're witnessing mob mentality, I think we all just happen to not mind that statues of confederate generals and slave traders are being defaced and torn down. Will there be collateral damage? Yes, of course, per mob mentality. If federal and state governments had done the right thing a long time ago this wouldn't be an issue.

Humperdink wrote:If in your view violence against these objects is acceptable, would it be okay to destroy slave owner Thomas Jefferson's Monticello?
There are slave quarters on site. How about the other founders who were slave owners? Level their properties also?

Slippery slope? The protesting democrats are on it. Violence begets violence. I suspect progressives would call this progress.


It's not acceptable, but it is understandable. You need to consider the context for their actions. This is the only form of power they feel will be heard by their government. Not saying it's what I would do, but I understand why they're doing it. I hope it stops soon and local governments meet in good faith with the protest leaders to hash out various reforms. I think you can understand why the protesters would doubt the good faith part of that.

Once again, you're drawing a false equivalency between a statue and a museum/landmark. I would hope you can tell the difference in perceived meaning between the two, especially when one honors a confederate general and one documents the lifestyle of an abolitionist. There is no slippery slope my friend, but the basis of your rationale is often paranoia, so I can see why you'd feel that way.

It's also important to note that the protesters are not democrats, they are angry human beings reacting to police brutality. But you have to villainize someone and pick a side, so I can see why you'd call them democrats. Violence begets violence, but keep in mind that they are retaliating. It's almost like you've forgotten why they're protesting.

How much longer are you going to go on this "democrats are inherently evil and want to destroy america" binge? Have you considered how counterproductive it is? Or maybe it's really you that likes to watch the world burn? Given your contributions to this board, it certainly seems that way.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:23 am

"We are witnessing decades of anger boiling over.."

It has boiled over periodically, the last being the Freddie Gray death. Obama was president. The Lightbringer was unable solve it then and it will undoubtedly not be solved now.

"You need to consider the context for their actions."

Sorry violence isn't the answer at any time.

"Once again, you're drawing a false equivalency between a statue and a museum/landmark."

Do tell, what's the difference between a museum and a landmark in this context?

" your rationale is often paranoia .."

Ad hominem attacks will conclude our discussion.


"How much longer are you going to go on this "democrats are inherently evil and want to destroy america'"

Democrats want to "transform" America, which will lead to the destruction of America our as you and I know it. We are not perfect. We have defects. Those defects can be fixed without violence. From your comments, it would appear violence is the only remaining avenue. I disagree. But, it's hard to negotiate with someone who comes at you with pitchforks and torches. I find it is interesting that you cannot see this violence is occurring in the same cities run by the D party for decades. What have the mayors and police chiefs been doing?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm

Humperdink wrote:
It has boiled over periodically, the last being the Freddie Gray death. Obama was president. The Lightbringer was unable solve it then and it will undoubtedly not be solved now.


Yeah? So?

Humperdink wrote:Sorry violence isn't the answer at any time.


Agreed, but you and I have the benefit of education and not feeling as if we are being murdered by those sworn to protect us. You'd be surprised how far those things can push a person. Or have you not considered how these people are feeling before you formed an opinion? Like I said before, it's not acceptable, but it is understandable. If you were a little bit less educated, and felt as if the police were disproportionately killing white people, and there were statues dedicated to men that enslaved your great grandparents, I think you'd be driven to unruly protest as well. If you don't know any better, how can you know better?

Humperdink wrote:Do tell, what's the difference between a museum and a landmark in this context?


You can't be serious.

Humperdink wrote:Ad hominem attacks will conclude our discussion.


Many of your arguments are fear-based "what if" arguments, so, saying you're paranoid is 100% appropriate in this case. Do you disagree?

Humperdink wrote:Democrats want to "transform" America, which will lead to the destruction of America our as you and I know it. We are not perfect. We have defects. Those defects can be fixed without violence.


Have you noticed that 99.999% of the time, in this country, rights issues are pursued without violence? No one is saying that violent protesting is the right thing to do. People are saying that when you have hundreds of years of oppression, or even perceived oppression, this is what happens. People are very, very angry, and thus peaceful protests turn into violent protests. And you should also note the many documented cases of protesters protecting stores from being looted and turning in those that incite violence.

"Democrats want to "transform" America, which will lead to the destruction of America our as you and I know it." Please read this back to yourself out loud, and listen to how ridiculous you sound. Do you know who says these sorts of things? Limbaugh, Hannity, Carlson, etc. You are taking the most obvious fearmongers of the right and repeating their mantra word for word.

You also, again, fail to separate career democratic politicians who are collecting a check and progressives, as well as the far left. Do you understand that those three factions are not the same thing? Do you know how often the left calls itself out? Please spend some time looking into what the left actually wants, and maybe re-examine some of the obvious moral dilemmas that your own party has roped you into. I can promise you that as long as you hold opinions like "the democrats will destroy america," you are actually making it easier for both parties to actually destroy America. Please think about that. For as much as you want to rail against the "liberal media," the conservative media is playing you like a fiddle.

Humperdink wrote:From your comments, it would appear violence is the only remaining avenue. I disagree. But, it's hard to negotiate with someone who comes at you with pitchforks and torches. I find it is interesting that you cannot see this violence is occurring in the same cities run by the D party for decades. What have the mayors and police chiefs been doing?


How nice of you to assume what you don't know. Do you know who feels that violence is the only remaining avenue? Violent protesters! Not you nor I. But of course you can't even for a second put yourself in their shoes. And you are right! It IS hard to negotiate with pitchforks and torches. That's why usually there aren't protests, and usually the protests are peaceful. Again, think about what you're saying.

And what a nice little sentence you ended with. I want you to think about why that could be the case before you read the next sentence that I write (start thinking now). (Are you ready for a mind-blowing explanation to your riddle of riddles?) Cities with democratic mayors also contain lots of democratic citizens that support police reform! WHAT ARE THE ODDS!? OMG?!
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:56 pm

"saying you're paranoid is 100% appropriate in this case."

Doubling down on an ad hominem attack?

Reading comprehension escapes you. Have fun.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Humperdink wrote:"saying you're paranoid is 100% appropriate in this case."

Doubling down on an ad hominem attack?

Reading comprehension escapes you. Have fun.


Do you know what ad hominem means? Saying that your arguments are fear-based is not a personal attack, it's actually an attack on your arguments and rationale. Brilliant, kind-hearted, well-meaning people can still be paranoid.

Edit: Also, I literally addressed your arguments line by line, so I think I paid due diligence to say the least.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:20 pm

Headline of the day: "Tim Kaine Claims America Invented Slavery; Roman Empire and Egyptian Pharaohs Demand Apology"

America bashing reaches new heights. And to think he could have been the Vice-President. A veritable wizard of smart.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 am

Systemic Racism. What is it? According to NAACP President Derrick Johnson, systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, is defined as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans." (USA today 6/15/20).

So who controls most, if not all, of the institutions and systems in the US? Colleges/Universities? The Left. Major cities (mayors, DA's, Police chiefs)? The left. Big Tech (Google, Twitter, Fakebook)? The left. Big Hollywood? The left. Television networks? The left (save Fox). Major newspapers? The left.

So who gets blamed for systemic racism in the US? Oh that's easy, Trump and his racist political party.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:50 am

Humperdink wrote:Systemic Racism. What is it? According to NAACP President Derrick Johnson, systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, is defined as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans." (USA today 6/15/20).

So who controls most, if not all, of the institutions and systems in the US? Colleges/Universities? The Left. Major cities (mayors, DA's, Police chiefs)? The left. Big Tech (Google, Twitter, Fakebook)? The left. Big Hollywood? The left. Television networks? The left (save Fox). Major newspapers? The left.

So who gets blamed for systemic racism in the US? Oh that's easy, Trump and his racist political party.


You can try as hard as you want to make this into a us vs. them sort of thing, but it isn't, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner this will all make sense to you, and you'll stop hating the portion of the country that "controls everything."

You're using middle-school level if->then rationale to "solve" problems that have plagued humanity forever. Maybe you should start looking into hypothetical solutions and filling this thread with "what if we all tried to do x,y,z" or "help me understand why x,y,z" instead of just being angry all the time. At least be constructive with your outrage. Accusing the other side of being hypocritical, evil people when they have just as much ammo against your side is a waste of time.

If you can't read the sentences I just wrote and respond in a positive or reflective way, you need to reconsider how you're making decisions on a day to day basis Hump. The world is how it is, whether you like it or not. Will you shout angrily into the void or will you try to build bridges to the other side?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:40 am

Japanese internment camps were established during World War II by President Franklin Roosevelt through his Executive Order 9066. From 1942 to 1945, it was the policy of the U.S. government that people of Japanese descent would be interred in isolated camps (read:jails). They were placed in custody without committing a crime other than being of Japanese descent.

It's time to start the removal of the statues and monuments of this former hero. To be fair, Roooooosevelt is still a hero to some on the left. After all, he did create the only legalized Ponzi scheme in US history.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:10 pm

Humperdink wrote:Japanese internment camps were established during World War II by President Franklin Roosevelt through his Executive Order 9066. From 1942 to 1945, it was the policy of the U.S. government that people of Japanese descent would be interred in isolated camps (read:jails). They were placed in custody without committing a crime other than being of Japanese descent.

It's time to start the removal of the statues and monuments of this former hero. To be fair, Roooooosevelt is still a hero to some on the left. After all, he did create the only legalized Ponzi scheme in US history.


Have you ever taken a logic class Hump? If you can't see why drawing a parallel between the two situations is problematic for a number of reasons, then you shouldn't be commenting on anything political for any reason. Your comments are reckless and dangerous.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:34 pm

Andrew Jackson wanted full ethnic cleansing level action taken against the Indians. $20 bill.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:09 pm

Jim wrote:Andrew Jackson wanted full ethnic cleansing level action taken against the Indians. $20 bill.


The Portland contingent of the democrat party is working their way forward in history. George Washington's statue was recently toppled in their fair city. Don't worry, they will get to Jackson soon enough.

PS: ^^^^ Is this a dangerous comment? Inquiring minds want to know. If it is, please alert the moderators. *cough*
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Daniel on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:40 pm

Hey Humperdink, good joke for you (stealing from the old joke about Cleveland)

What's the difference between the Titanic and leftist cities?

The Titanic had better restaurants. :scared: :D 8-)

:fist:
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:45 pm

Humperdink wrote:
Jim wrote:Andrew Jackson wanted full ethnic cleansing level action taken against the Indians. $20 bill.


The Portland contingent of the democrat party is working their way forward in history. George Washington's statue was recently toppled in their fair city. Don't worry, they will get to Jackson soon enough.

PS: ^^^^ Is this a dangerous comment? Inquiring minds want to know. If it is, please alert the moderators. *cough*


He didn't say "Native Americans," but at least he capitalized the I in "Indians." Shows he trying. More than I can say for you unfortunately.

"The Portland contingent of the democrat party"... what exactly is that Humpy? As in like, the mayor? Did the mayor knock the statue over? The DCC? Did the democratic members of the school boards get together and topple the statue? Or is possible that you just made up an imaginary militant wing of the democratic party in order to fit your narrative of all democrats being evil?

Serious question for you Hump: What % of democrats in the US do you think support toppling the GW statue? Because if you answer honestly, it will mean that you're arguing in bad faith, which, we both know you are.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm

A Big Tech All-Points-Bulletin has been issued for Humperdink. Easy to spot. Makes reckless and dangerous comments on a few websites. Irritates the political opposition who resort to ridicule and name-calling. Causes gnashing of teeth. Need Google to demonetize him, Fakebook to suspend him and twitter to send him to the social media equivalent of Siberia. Advise the authorities if spotted. That would be Raz in CHOP, Antifa in Portland and Hillary in Chappaqua. Oh wait, scratch Hillary, Humperdink's life insurance not current.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Humperdink wrote:A Big Tech All-Points-Bulletin has been issued for Humperdink. Easy to spot. Makes reckless and dangerous comments on a few websites. Irritates the political opposition who resort to ridicule and name-calling. Causes gnashing of teeth. Need Google to demonetize him, Fakebook to suspend him and twitter to send him to the social media equivalent of Siberia. Advise the authorities if spotted. That would be Raz in CHOP, Antifa in Portland and Hillary in Chappaqua. Oh wait, scratch Hillary, Humperdink's life insurance not current.


That's cute humpy. Do you think it's a good thing that you see me as "the opposition?" Do you see any philosophical issues with that?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:04 pm

theblackarts wrote:
Humperdink wrote:
Jim wrote:Andrew Jackson wanted full ethnic cleansing level action taken against the Indians. $20 bill.


The Portland contingent of the democrat party is working their way forward in history. George Washington's statue was recently toppled in their fair city. Don't worry, they will get to Jackson soon enough.

PS: ^^^^ Is this a dangerous comment? Inquiring minds want to know. If it is, please alert the moderators. *cough*


He didn't say "Native Americans," but at least he capitalized the I in "Indians." Shows he trying. More than I can say for you unfortunately.

"The Portland contingent of the democrat party"... what exactly is that Humpy? As in like, the mayor? Did the mayor knock the statue over? The DCC? Did the democratic members of the school boards get together and topple the statue? Or is possible that you just made up an imaginary militant wing of the democratic party in order to fit your narrative of all democrats being evil?

Serious question for you Hump: What % of democrats in the US do you think support toppling the GW statue? Because if you answer honestly, it will mean that you're arguing in bad faith, which, we both know you are.


Did I miss a Native American / Indian debate?

I actually debated using Native Americans instead, but went with what Jackson called them to keep with his mindset.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:49 am

With little fanfare, the newly-minted sovereign nation of CHOP, (nee' CHAZ) has released it's unemployment stats. Not surprisingly, the unemployment rate came in rather high at 99.6%. Digging into the stats, it appears there were only three people employed in the entire country of CHOP. Those were identified as RAZ, "chief" of security, Serenity "chief" of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) who issued the report, and an unnamed member of the DNC who was conducting a voter registration drive.

Serenity cited a shortage of Molotov cocktail components and spray paint as reasons for the lull in economic activity. On the bright side, ammo and gun sales were up as RAZ was looking to enhance security.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:55 am

First it was Aunt Jemima being erased from syrup labels, then Uncle Ben of rice fame was disposed of, followed by the news the "Eskimo" is being deleted from the Eskimo pie treat. Now we have breaking news from the Babylon Bee that Frito Lay is following suit. Quoting the spokesperson:

"After over 100 years of selling its caramel popcorn snack under the name Cracker Jack, Frito-Lay announced today that it would be re-branded as the less offensive "Caucasian Jack."

"We are very sorry to all the crack---er, I mean, Caucasians we have hurt over the years," said a spokesperson. "Cracker is an offensive stereotype, and we must make sure that all foods and snack products are culturally sensitive."

https://babylonbee.com/news/cracker-jac ... sian-jacks
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Southern Fan on Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:58 pm

Petition to change Columbus Ohio to Flavertown. I don’t think it’s Babylon Bee originated. Looking forward to the Pens playing the Flavertown Bluejackets.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Daniel on Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:26 pm

Southern Fan wrote:Petition to change Columbus Ohio to Flavertown. I don’t think it’s Babylon Bee originated. Looking forward to the Pens playing the Flavertown Bluejackets.


Just name all cities Libria so no one gets offended by anything.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:17 pm

Headline from Duluth, MN: "Duluth pushes to remove 'chief' from job titles, calling it offensive to Indigenous people"

"At a news conference this week, Mayor Emily Larson urged City Council members to vote to approve the change "so that we have more inclusive leadership and less language that is rooted in hurt and offensive, intentional marginalization."

https://www.startribune.com/duluth-push ... 571342532/

chief (n.) c. 1300, "head, leader, captain; the principal or most important part of anything;" from Old French chief "leader, ruler, head" of something, "capital city" (10c., Modern French chef), from Vulgar Latin *capum, from Latin caput "head," also "leader, chief person; summit; capital city" (from PIE root *kaput- "head"). Meaning "head of a clan" is from 1570s; later extended to headmen of American Indian tribes (by 1713; William Penn, 1680s, called them kings). Commander-in-chief attested from 1660s.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:00 pm

Last night in San Francisco, left-wingers pulled down a statue of Ulysses Grant, the man who did more than anyone except Lincoln to preserve the Union and abolish slavery. The reason for tearing down his statue was apparently that he once owned a slave that he had been given. But he voluntarily freed that slave in 1859, before the Civil War, and long before slavery was abolished.

Quote from Frederick Douglass* about Grant:

“To him, more than to any other man, the Negro owes his enfranchisement,” Douglass said. Douglass eulogized Grant as “a man too broad for prejudice, too humane to despise the humblest, too great to be small at any point. In him the Negro found a protector, the Indian a friend, a vanquished foe a brother, an imperiled nation a savior.”

(From Hans Bader, John Hinderaker)

* For the historically unschooled, Frederick Douglass was an American social reformer, abolitionist, orator, writer, and statesman. After escaping from slavery in Maryland, he became a national leader of the abolitionist movement in Massachusetts and New York, gaining note for his oratory and incisive antislavery writings.
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