Politics... have at it!!!

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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby interstorm on Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm

pronovost19 wrote:Enjoy the Kool Aid


Lol - and you enjoy your cognitive dissonance!

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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby pronovost19 on Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:23 am

Lies?

The Democrats have been lying to us for years. Look at what they did to Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh in the late 70's-80's. The entire state of California. Seattle. They ruin everything they rule. People crapping in the streets. Have you seen what those cities look like now?

Yesterday former President Obama gave an impromptu speech. Blaming Trump for everything. That is the Dems shell game. Blame everyone, intimidate people to conform or shut up. It is mindless idiocy. Obama had 8 years to do something. What did he do? NOTHING. Ferguson, Baltimore, all that crap happened on his watch. Does he think we are ALL stupid? Or have no memory? He now lives in a multi-million dollar home on Martha's Vineyard. You think he gives a crap about us? Nope. Nada. He got his. Bidens and Clintons are the same. Power and money. All they care about.

The Dems used to pull the wool over my eyes. They continuously used me and the working class as a pawn.

People have finally realized this. Now they vilify anyone who disagrees with ad hominem attacks and threats.
They still serve the Kool Aid, but those that are not drinking it anymore known their game. The biggest change recently is that many African American males have turned to the right - some even celebrities - because they know that they have been duped into thinking Dems could help them. You see how bad they are vilified on TV/CNN/FakeNews? Just because low and behold, they thought for themselves and did not drink the liberal Kool-Aid.

For me - it doesn't matter who the President is - it is just a figurehead. I voted for G. Johnson last time. It means very little. But, people are moving from cities to rural America where people still value the middle class and hard work is applauded. The mass exodus from liberal cities means less tax base and the taxes in those cities will keep going up and nothing will ever get fixed (California is so broke it isn't even funny). But, "big gov't" wants as many tethered to it as possible. They want people to be dependent on them because it makes them important and gives them reason to tell you that they know how to better spend your money than you do.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:14 pm

pronovost19 wrote:Lies?

The Democrats have been lying to us for years. Look at what they did to Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh in the late 70's-80's. The entire state of California. Seattle. They ruin everything they rule. People crapping in the streets. Have you seen what those cities look like now?

Yesterday former President Obama gave an impromptu speech. Blaming Trump for everything. That is the Dems shell game. Blame everyone, intimidate people to conform or shut up. It is mindless idiocy. Obama had 8 years to do something. What did he do? NOTHING. Ferguson, Baltimore, all that crap happened on his watch. Does he think we are ALL stupid? Or have no memory? He now lives in a multi-million dollar home on Martha's Vineyard. You think he gives a crap about us? Nope. Nada. He got his. Bidens and Clintons are the same. Power and money. All they care about.

The Dems used to pull the wool over my eyes. They continuously used me and the working class as a pawn.

People have finally realized this. Now they vilify anyone who disagrees with ad hominem attacks and threats.
They still serve the Kool Aid, but those that are not drinking it anymore known their game. The biggest change recently is that many African American males have turned to the right - some even celebrities - because they know that they have been duped into thinking Dems could help them. You see how bad they are vilified on TV/CNN/FakeNews? Just because low and behold, they thought for themselves and did not drink the liberal Kool-Aid.

For me - it doesn't matter who the President is - it is just a figurehead. I voted for G. Johnson last time. It means very little. But, people are moving from cities to rural America where people still value the middle class and hard work is applauded. The mass exodus from liberal cities means less tax base and the taxes in those cities will keep going up and nothing will ever get fixed (California is so broke it isn't even funny). But, "big gov't" wants as many tethered to it as possible. They want people to be dependent on them because it makes them important and gives them reason to tell you that they know how to better spend your money than you do.


You are clearly very passionate, which I appreciate, but your cynicism steers you wrong. You have to ask yourself, "if most of my claims are echoed by Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, am I really adjudicating independently?" I understand that you're upset about perceived injustices, and jaded to the idea of political/societal progress, but you need to separate your emotion from your ability to reason. There is progress to be made if you look in the right places. I would encourage you to google each of the points you just made and verify them through sources you feel you can 99% trust. You'll be able to tell when someone is making a claim from a data and research driven point of view, with your best interests in mind, rather than merely trying to appeal to your sense of disenfranchisement. Be wary of information that is trying to drum up emotion and resentment, and weaponize your emotions against you. Noone who claims the left or right is evil is on your side; look for arguments made with civility. News and information literacy is critical to making rational decisions in 2020, and likely will be into the distant future; informed insight is the best way to ensure you are never again a working class pawn.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Zarovich on Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:27 pm

Both sides try to keep the population off balance to maintain control. These politicians get into office, stick around playing the game and become very rich. We are all pawns in their shell game.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Kaizer on Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:28 pm

The Democrats have been lying to us for years. Look at what they did to Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh in the late 70's-80's. The entire state of California. Seattle.


this says nothing. what are you talking about?

They ruin everything they rule. People crapping in the streets. Have you seen what those cities look like now?


yes, to california and seattle, what about them?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby interstorm on Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:47 pm

So what does it say about the GOP that at this point their primary means of winning the election is by way of vote suppression. Forget non existing fraud, forget illegal immigrants. The Republicans are outright standing in the way of democracy in order to win.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Zarovich on Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:29 pm

interstorm wrote:So what does it say about the GOP that at this point their primary means of winning the election is by way of vote suppression. Forget non existing fraud, forget illegal immigrants. The Republicans are outright standing in the way of democracy in order to win.


This country is on the verge of becoming a banana republic.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Jim on Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:33 pm

A
B
T
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:28 pm

A final appeal to any conservative, independent/third party, or undecided voters who are planning to vote in person:

I’m not going to bother citing data or articles (as I believe it’s your personal responsibility as a citizen to both read scientific journals and suss out independent, unbiased journalism), but rather I want to briefly try and appeal to you on a human, ethical level.

First, if you are someone who is of the mind that “liberals want to destroy America,” or “the radical left wants to make us all socialists,” or any similar nonsense, I need you to drop it, and check in with reality. Just like I believe that all conservatives aren’t fascists or Nazis or white supremacists, I need you remain level-headed and read this post as an American citizen who recognizes that this country needs a lot of help right now. There is no progress to be made in believing that our neighbors want to destroy us, we all believe that we are fighting for the fate of the country and doing the right thing. There are very few things more important than regaining our sense of decency and common sense, as indecent prosperity really isn’t prosperity at all.

It is a disprovable, etched in stone fact that Donald Trump’s actions and rhetoric mirror the words and deeds of our greatest authoritarian political adversaries. This is not acceptable for the United States of America, regardless of how you feel about his policies. There is no liberal health-care plan, planned parenthood budget, social justice movement, court-packing scheme, or any other reality-based concern that should alarm you to the degree of Trump's narcissistic ransacking of our democratic stability, autonomy, and political norms. We have had sixteen years of democratic presidency in the past thirty years, and the country has been just fine (given the recessions that’s an understatement). No republican administration has come close to the flirtatious authoritarianism that we are seeing with the Trump Administration, and that is objectively provable. To make matters worse, Trump provides infinite justification for the illiberal left, which adds even more unnecessary fuel to the fire, which makes it difficult to check such obvious institutional abuse. If you read the words of foreign journalists who have experienced authoritarianism at any level, the comparisons to Trump’s administration are uncanny. We are better than this.

The public needs to believe in the presidency. The public needs to believe in our intelligence community. The public needs to believe in the FBI. The public needs to believe in our judiciary. There is no room for excuses, for “he’s just joking,” etc. etc. Trust in our institutions is paramount to a healthy democracy, and the erosion that has taken place in the past four years seems irrecoverable to me at times. The intelligence relationships that have been damaged or destroyed are especially concerning.

If the US is to remain a beacon of liberty and hope, freedom and opportunity, a leader in technology and innovation, and most importantly an example of a government that weeds itself of corruption, conservatives MUST take their party back. Conservatism must once again stand for decency, justice, and small (but effortlessly functional) government. There needs to be room in conservativism for intellectualism and science, research and reason. When you are being won over by rallying cries instead of persuasive arguments, something is wrong. Conservatives MUST understand that the current trajectory of their party is not sustainable, they cannot both win this political battle and keep the country and the party they love. We need healthy debate to flourish; we need to agree to disagree on certain issues. Those are brute facts. We need to compromise and move forward together, not tear each other apart. The democrats have a long, long, way to go, but removing Trump from office is a referendum on authoritarianism that cannot be overlooked.

We need to return to treating each other with civility. We need to return to respecting those who are different than us, and maybe even hold opinions that negatively affect us. We need to remember that we share a planet that desperately needs our attention. We need to recognize when we have enough to give to our neighbor who may not be so fortunate. This election cannot be about us vs. them, it needs to be about us vs. “me.” America is dominant and admirable when we are united. Make no mistake, no one has done more to drive us apart than Donald Trump, and not for the gain of anyone but himself. This is not my opinion; you can count his inflammatory statements and weight their effect. His rhetoric is simply indefensible. On a weekly basis he makes remarks that would sink any other candidacy or presidency on their own.

Joe Biden is not a magic bullet; he is far from it. The democrats are not our saviors, they suffer from many of the same ills as the republicans. But imagine a government where cabinet positions are filled by those who are qualified to lead in their respective positions. Imagine if our intelligence officers could deliver briefings that contain harsh truths about our supposed allies. Imagine if our foreign relations were a long game of chess instead of a shouting match at recess. Imagine if instead of trying to bring back coal and manufacturing we mobilized ourselves in renewable energy and prepared ourselves to deal with automation. Imagine if the EPA acted in a way that was both responsible to our environment and to our economy. Imagine if the CDC had the funding and support it needed to research a pandemic, announce findings, and then change its recommendations after new data were uncovered, with the full encouragement of our executive branch. Imagine if a moderate SCJ was nominated. The list is endless. “Big” government can also be responsible government if we make it that way. Higher taxes can benefit our quality of life, not just our bank accounts. There are modern problems facing us that need modern solutions, and Trump has proven to us that he is not interested in any such innovation. Imagine if we had spent the last four years improving our health care, redesigning our immigration policies, fortifying our trade and foreign relations, expanding our renewable energy potential... instead of lashing out at each other. Trump is not the source of this problem, but he is unmistakably the primary catalyst. Let's remember what it's like to work toward a common good, instead of victory for our party at any cost.

Please consider a vote for Biden (or a third party), for the sake of the republican party, and the country itself, as Trump cannot, under any circumstances, be allowed to remain in office.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby BigMcK on Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:47 am

Hello, bus company, did you leave me? I used to believe that I could always count on you. I guess that I never saw that my bus service had left me behind. When did you change? New drivers operating the bus?

Man, does anyone have an Uber app?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:14 pm

theblackarts wrote:A final appeal to any conservative, independent/third party, or undecided voters who are planning to vote in person:

I’m not going to bother citing data or articles (as I believe it’s your personal responsibility as a citizen to both read scientific journals and suss out independent, unbiased journalism), but rather I want to briefly try and appeal to you on a human, ethical level.

First, if you are someone who is of the mind that “liberals want to destroy America,” or “the radical left wants to make us all socialists,” or any similar nonsense, I need you to drop it, and check in with reality. Just like I believe that all conservatives aren’t fascists or Nazis or white supremacists, I need you remain level-headed and read this post as an American citizen who recognizes that this country needs a lot of help right now. There is no progress to be made in believing that our neighbors want to destroy us, we all believe that we are fighting for the fate of the country and doing the right thing. There are very few things more important than regaining our sense of decency and common sense, as indecent prosperity really isn’t prosperity at all.

It is a disprovable, etched in stone fact that Donald Trump’s actions and rhetoric mirror the words and deeds of our greatest authoritarian political adversaries. This is not acceptable for the United States of America, regardless of how you feel about his policies. There is no liberal health-care plan, planned parenthood budget, social justice movement, court-packing scheme, or any other reality-based concern that should alarm you to the degree of Trump's narcissistic ransacking of our democratic stability, autonomy, and political norms. We have had sixteen years of democratic presidency in the past thirty years, and the country has been just fine (given the recessions that’s an understatement). No republican administration has come close to the flirtatious authoritarianism that we are seeing with the Trump Administration, and that is objectively provable. To make matters worse, Trump provides infinite justification for the illiberal left, which adds even more unnecessary fuel to the fire, which makes it difficult to check such obvious institutional abuse. If you read the words of foreign journalists who have experienced authoritarianism at any level, the comparisons to Trump’s administration are uncanny. We are better than this.

The public needs to believe in the presidency. The public needs to believe in our intelligence community. The public needs to believe in the FBI. The public needs to believe in our judiciary. There is no room for excuses, for “he’s just joking,” etc. etc. Trust in our institutions is paramount to a healthy democracy, and the erosion that has taken place in the past four years seems irrecoverable to me at times. The intelligence relationships that have been damaged or destroyed are especially concerning.

If the US is to remain a beacon of liberty and hope, freedom and opportunity, a leader in technology and innovation, and most importantly an example of a government that weeds itself of corruption, conservatives MUST take their party back. Conservatism must once again stand for decency, justice, and small (but effortlessly functional) government. There needs to be room in conservativism for intellectualism and science, research and reason. When you are being won over by rallying cries instead of persuasive arguments, something is wrong. Conservatives MUST understand that the current trajectory of their party is not sustainable, they cannot both win this political battle and keep the country and the party they love. We need healthy debate to flourish; we need to agree to disagree on certain issues. Those are brute facts. We need to compromise and move forward together, not tear each other apart. The democrats have a long, long, way to go, but removing Trump from office is a referendum on authoritarianism that cannot be overlooked.

We need to return to treating each other with civility. We need to return to respecting those who are different than us, and maybe even hold opinions that negatively affect us. We need to remember that we share a planet that desperately needs our attention. We need to recognize when we have enough to give to our neighbor who may not be so fortunate. This election cannot be about us vs. them, it needs to be about us vs. “me.” America is dominant and admirable when we are united. Make no mistake, no one has done more to drive us apart than Donald Trump, and not for the gain of anyone but himself. This is not my opinion; you can count his inflammatory statements and weight their effect. His rhetoric is simply indefensible. On a weekly basis he makes remarks that would sink any other candidacy or presidency on their own.

Joe Biden is not a magic bullet; he is far from it. The democrats are not our saviors, they suffer from many of the same ills as the republicans. But imagine a government where cabinet positions are filled by those who are qualified to lead in their respective positions. Imagine if our intelligence officers could deliver briefings that contain harsh truths about our supposed allies. Imagine if our foreign relations were a long game of chess instead of a shouting match at recess. Imagine if instead of trying to bring back coal and manufacturing we mobilized ourselves in renewable energy and prepared ourselves to deal with automation. Imagine if the EPA acted in a way that was both responsible to our environment and to our economy. Imagine if the CDC had the funding and support it needed to research a pandemic, announce findings, and then change its recommendations after new data were uncovered, with the full encouragement of our executive branch. Imagine if a moderate SCJ was nominated. The list is endless. “Big” government can also be responsible government if we make it that way. Higher taxes can benefit our quality of life, not just our bank accounts. There are modern problems facing us that need modern solutions, and Trump has proven to us that he is not interested in any such innovation. Imagine if we had spent the last four years improving our health care, redesigning our immigration policies, fortifying our trade and foreign relations, expanding our renewable energy potential... instead of lashing out at each other. Trump is not the source of this problem, but he is unmistakably the primary catalyst. Let's remember what it's like to work toward a common good, instead of victory for our party at any cost.

Please consider a vote for Biden (or a third party), for the sake of the republican party, and the country itself, as Trump cannot, under any circumstances, be allowed to remain in office.


I was on the fence until I read the post Gazette editorial page throw their support behind Trump. I think he's a grotesque human being but he has delivered so much for the american people it's unheard of. Their words echo my thoughts.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:58 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I was on the fence until I read the post Gazette editorial page throw their support behind Trump. I think he's a grotesque human being but he has delivered so much for the american people it's unheard of. Their words echo my thoughts.


The editorial board is unapologetically right-wing and entirely separate from the rest of their staff. I'm sorry that you didn't bother looking into any of their claims, which are fairly easy to pick apart; I'll leave that up to you. Their argument against Biden was embarrassingly weak. Nevertheless, I'm glad you did what you felt was right.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:29 pm

theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I was on the fence until I read the post Gazette editorial page throw their support behind Trump. I think he's a grotesque human being but he has delivered so much for the american people it's unheard of. Their words echo my thoughts.


The editorial board is unapologetically right-wing and entirely separate from the rest of their staff. I'm sorry that you didn't bother looking into any of their claims, which are fairly easy to pick apart; I'll leave that up to you. Their argument against Biden was embarrassingly weak. Nevertheless, I'm glad you did what you felt was right.


Actually I did look into their claims and came to the same reasonable conclusion. If they lean right why haven't they endorsed a Republican for President since the early 70s?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I was on the fence until I read the post Gazette editorial page throw their support behind Trump. I think he's a grotesque human being but he has delivered so much for the american people it's unheard of. Their words echo my thoughts.


The editorial board is unapologetically right-wing and entirely separate from the rest of their staff. I'm sorry that you didn't bother looking into any of their claims, which are fairly easy to pick apart; I'll leave that up to you. Their argument against Biden was embarrassingly weak. Nevertheless, I'm glad you did what you felt was right.


Actually I did look into their claims and came to the same reasonable conclusion. If they lean right why haven't they endorsed a Republican for President since the early 70s?


I'd be curious to know where you looked, and how you squared what you found with the current state of our government, to the point of wanting four more years of a plunge into autocracy. Keep in mind, Trump's handling of the pandemic cannot be separated from his perceived economic successes. They go hand-in-hand, and you and I pay the price.

They appointed a right-leaning editorial director in 2018.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:45 pm

You didn't answer my question
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:54 pm

Anybody

But

Trump
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:05 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:You didn't answer my question


Yes I did: "They appointed a right-leaning editorial director in 2018."

2018 is after 2016 when they endorsed Hillary. The PG staff even put out a piece after the Trump endorsement making sure everyone knows they are separate from the editorial board. The PG has entertained several journalistic scandals since appointing said director.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:14 pm

theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:You didn't answer my question


Yes I did: "They appointed a right-leaning editorial director in 2018."

2018 is after 2016 when they endorsed Hillary. The PG staff even put out a piece after the Trump endorsement making sure everyone knows they are separate from the editorial board. The PG has entertained several journalistic scandals since appointing said director.


Why did they appoint a right leaning editorial board? What scandals?
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:26 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:You didn't answer my question


Yes I did: "They appointed a right-leaning editorial director in 2018."

2018 is after 2016 when they endorsed Hillary. The PG staff even put out a piece after the Trump endorsement making sure everyone knows they are separate from the editorial board. The PG has entertained several journalistic scandals since appointing said director.


Why did they appoint a right leaning editorial board? What scandals?


I'm sorry you haven't been following this; it's been thoroughly publicised, to the point of making national news. The NYT even covered the firing of Pulitzer Prize finalist Rob Rogers when the paper moved to the right. The PG ownership merged the PG with another right-leaning paper in 2018 and maintained their editor, who dramatically altered the views expressed in the PG, and most recently drew national criticism for removing articles, reposting articles, sidelining black reporters, and blocking coverage of the BLM protests.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 pm

Here is why i ask, i googled Stan J. Wischnowski, the gentleman who wrote that letter about the separation of the editorial board and the news side of the Post-Gazette operation.

He was appointed the new executive editor and vice president of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in September 2020, not 2018 like you claimed.

He came from the Philadelphia Inquirer where he led the paper to a Pulitzer Prize in. Looking at allsides.com the Philadelphia has a "lean left" bias. So when you say he is right leaning I dont see that.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:32 pm

I stopped reading after “it is a disprovable, etched in stone fact...”
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:45 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Here is why i ask, i googled Stan J. Wischnowski, the gentleman who wrote that letter about the separation of the editorial board and the news side of the Post-Gazette operation.

He was appointed the new executive editor and vice president of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in September 2020, not 2018 like you claimed.

He came from the Philadelphia Inquirer where he led the paper to a Pulitzer Prize in. Looking at allsides.com the Philadelphia has a "lean left" bias. So when you say he is right leaning I dont see that.


You're looking at the wrong guy; he's the executive editor, not on the editorial board. "As executive editor overseeing only the Post-Gazette newsroom, I am not a member of the editorial board." It's in the letter.

Block and Burris are the two gents of interest here.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:50 pm

theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Here is why i ask, i googled Stan J. Wischnowski, the gentleman who wrote that letter about the separation of the editorial board and the news side of the Post-Gazette operation.

He was appointed the new executive editor and vice president of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in September 2020, not 2018 like you claimed.

He came from the Philadelphia Inquirer where he led the paper to a Pulitzer Prize in. Looking at allsides.com the Philadelphia has a "lean left" bias. So when you say he is right leaning I dont see that.


You're looking at the wrong guy; he's the executive editor, not on the editorial board. "As executive editor overseeing only the Post-Gazette newsroom, I am not a member of the editorial board." It's in the letter.

Block and Burris are the two gents of interest here.


Gotcha
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:51 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:I stopped reading after “it is a disprovable, etched in stone fact...”


That's weird, you should have kept reading! Either way, if you can disprove that statement, in light of what even members of his own party have stated, you'll be hailed as a journalistic messiah.
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Re: Politics... have at it!!!

Postby theblackarts on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:52 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Here is why i ask, i googled Stan J. Wischnowski, the gentleman who wrote that letter about the separation of the editorial board and the news side of the Post-Gazette operation.

He was appointed the new executive editor and vice president of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in September 2020, not 2018 like you claimed.

He came from the Philadelphia Inquirer where he led the paper to a Pulitzer Prize in. Looking at allsides.com the Philadelphia has a "lean left" bias. So when you say he is right leaning I dont see that.


You're looking at the wrong guy; he's the executive editor, not on the editorial board. "As executive editor overseeing only the Post-Gazette newsroom, I am not a member of the editorial board." It's in the letter.

Block and Burris are the two gents of interest here.


Gotcha


Sorry if I'm being pointed, I'm understandably a little anxious, haha.
theblackarts
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:11 pm

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