Kitchener player seriously injured after getting hit

[DelPen]

guess he should have thought about that before he took strides from 50 ft away to line up that guy for a hit. you wouldn't know it from watching most games, but 'charging' is an enforceable rule and was created to keep these kinds of hits from occuring.

I didn't know skating towards someone cause them to put themselevs in a bad poosition to get destroyed on a clean hit.

This is absolute BS, I don't care how much of a never-was Liambis is, no player should get suspended even one game for a legal hit like this let alone the entire season.

[bhaw]

i heard a clip of the OHL commissioner. His reasoning was due to how far he traveled for the hit and the fact that he accelerated to top speed during that distance.

From the sounds of it, they used him more to set an example. He said they are going to try and bring respect for other players back into the game.

While it may not have been the perfect hit to set an example on, I think it will definitely get their intended message across. Whether you agree with the message is a different argument.

[steelhammer]

guess he should have thought about that before he took strides from 50 ft away to line up that guy for a hit. you wouldn't know it from watching most games, but 'charging' is an enforceable rule and was created to keep these kinds of hits from occuring.

I didn't know skating towards someone cause them to put themselevs in a bad poosition to get destroyed on a clean hit.

This is absolute BS, I don't care how much of a never-was Liambis is, no player should get suspended even one game for a legal hit like this let alone the entire season.

well, now you know. you could also bother to familiarize yourself with NHL rule 47: Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A "Charge" may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

this guy might have ended someone's career committing an unnecessary penalty {it is indeed a penalty, read the rulebook}. players need to be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. no sympathy. good riddance.

[Draftnik]

Liambas also boarded Fanelli and the came up with his elbow as he drove Fanelli's head into the boards. The youtube clip in this thread doesn't really show the whole story. TSN showed 3 different angles tonight that tell a more complete story. Fanelli actually looked up twice as he came around the net to see Liambas coming. Fanelli was playing in his 7th major JR game. He clearly wasn't accustomed to the tempo of playing against some never will be loser overage player like Liambas that is only 5 months younger than Jordan Staal. The follow-through on the hit also inflicted serious damage as Liambas' elbow came up.

If a loser like Liambas can't get a pro contract by the time he is 20 (at the start of a season), it should be time for him to get on with his life's work. I was always entertained by Steve Webb's antics when he played for the NYI. Unfortunately he sucked for the Pens, but that is another story. All Webb usually did was run around and hit guys. Most shifts he never even tried to possess the puck. Webb had a modicum of skill though. Look at his JR career:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=19006

Webb scored a few goals and some points in JR. He played low level professional hockey when he was 20 in the Colonial League.

Liambas JR scoring is negligible:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96563

He tried to play low level professional hockey last season in the IHL and couldn't cut it so he was back in the OHL to basically run around and kill boys. He is the antithesis of a hockey prospect. Liambas isn't Steve Webb, Steve Downie or Steve Ott. He is nothing but a loser that is running around trying to kill kids because he sucks too much to play low level pro.

16 year old JR kids like Fanelli are not professional hockey players getting paid hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per season to assume the risk of serious injury. I applaud Branch for protecting the kids in his league. There is a difference in the risk assumed between professional hockey players and young amateurs like Fanelli. Gary Roberts trying to end Anton Volchenkov's life multiple times in the 07 NHL playoffs is part of the NHL game and Volchenkov knew about the risk he faced and was compensated accordingly. Fanelli shouldn't be subject to the same standard as a 16 year old in his 7th OHL game facing a 20 year old with an entirely different level of physical maturity.

[tfrizz]

I you watch around the 0:40 mark they show a replay from behind the net. You can see from that replay that the hit was to Fanelli's shoulder.

As far as adding a rule to remove 20-year-olds from junior hockey, that would create a lot of controversy. There are enough "late bloomers" out that who may only get a shot at major junior as a 19 or 20 year old, and it would be taking that shot away from them. I think it's fair to say that no matter how good you are, if you never get into the spot light of a major junior league (at the least) you're chances of making pro are pretty slim.

[tjand72]

Tell us how you really feel Draftnik.

[bhaw]

Good point Draftnik. These are kids, not professionally paid athletes. They do need to be protected more than the NHL guys.

[mac5155]

is ther an update on his condition? from the view above it just looks like nothing more than a charge if anything...

[Kraftster]

The update on his condition last I saw was serious but stable condition.

Bob Mackenzie rights a very, very interesting piece on the hit and subsequent suspension. http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=297242

I was a bit outraged by the suspension at first, but, I think Mac's article is pretty compelling.

[ffemtreed]

I still don't think its a charge. That puck was dumped into the corner and it was a foot race to get to it. Its not like the injured player skated from the circle back behind his net with the puck to set up a play. The goalie stopped the puck and it was a race to see which player was going to get the puck. As fast as the game is played that whole thing happened in less and 2 seconds. You can not fault a guy for playing hard, no matter what his age/size is.

It doesn't matter how many games or the age of the injuried player. it doesn't matter how much he is or isn't getting paid. He knew the risks of playing with the big boys. If he wasn't ready to play then its on his teams and coaches who allowed him to play.

[shmenguin]

I have 2 takes

1) Before reading what Draftnik wrote:
there's nothing about that hit deserving of a suspension. a charging penalty? yes. but that's it. seems like the NHL isn't the only league that punishes by injury instead of intent.

2) After reading Draftnik's latest manifesto:
if safety is a growing issue in the OHL, and this player had a bad reputation as is, he should know not to run guys like this, and he should know that he'd be punished.

so i dunno...if this was the NHL and there was more than a 5 minute penalty assessed, it would be total garbage

[Caputi19]

First of draftnik, Liambas made the otters as an 18 yr old undrafted free agent. Many of the Otters played pro hockey after the otters season. For example, Justin Hodgman went to Fort Wayne of the IHL and won 2 championship and came back to Erie the next season. No reason to bad mouth a situation you have no idea about. Mike missed most of the last 2 yrs with injuries. We was with the Atlanta Thrashers beginning this year and failed his physical because of a prior injury. There has been plenty of guys in the nhl that played 4 yrs in the OHL. Cal Clutterbuck, who lead the nhl in hits last season played till he was 20. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter both did the same. So you arguement about being 20 yrs old in a junior league is crazy.

[The Snapshot]

Without worrying about whether or not the kid is a prospect, that hit is like a ton of Matt Cooke's best. The kid glided the last 15 feet into it, and the defenseman tried some kind of ill-fated spin move. The velocity was high, but the elbow was not. It appears to be an unfortunate series of events, with the helmet coming off as the last and most horrible of them.

[Draftnik]

First of draftnik, Liambas made the otters as an 18 yr old undrafted free agent. Many of the Otters played pro hockey after the otters season. For example, Justin Hodgman went to Fort Wayne of the IHL and won 2 championship and came back to Erie the next season. No reason to bad mouth a situation you have no idea about. Mike missed most of the last 2 yrs with injuries. We was with the Atlanta Thrashers beginning this year and failed his physical because of a prior injury. There has been plenty of guys in the nhl that played 4 yrs in the OHL. Cal Clutterbuck, who lead the nhl in hits last season played till he was 20. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter both did the same. So you arguement about being 20 yrs old in a junior league is crazy.

I don't want to be condescending, but you encourage that type of response with words such as "crazy". You clearly have no idea what the rules are regarding JR status and pro eligibility for CDN players. Carter, Richards, and Clutterbuck did not play in the CHL/OHL as overage JR 20 year old players. Their JR age is based on the age they are (were) at the calendar start of the NHL season. If they are not 20 before the calendar year start of the NHL season (on or about September 15 of each year), they are considered 19 year old players even though they may turn 20 before the end of the actual CHL season. In the case of CDN players that are 19 on Sept 15, but turn 20 before the end of the calendar year 12/31/XX, those players can turn pro and play in the AHL before the CHL season ends even though they are not overage JR players. That is applicable to Clutterbuck in this case.

Carter turned 20 on 1/1/05. That was during his final season at the Soo, so he was considered a 19 year old JR player that season. He WAS NOT considered an overage 20 year old JR player like Liambas. There is a difference. Do you understand it? The difference is a fact, not my opinion. There is a difference between fact and opinion.

Furthermore, Carter was ineligible to play in the AHL in 04/05 until his CHL season ended because he was not an overage (20) JR player, but in my opinion, he probably would have been in the NHL that season but... there was a lockout so there was no NHL season. That is additional contextual information to illustrate how absolutely nonsensical it is to compare Carter to Liambas. There is nothing comparable about them. The only league Carter could have played in during the 04/05 season was the OHL/CHL (until the season of his OHL team ended).

Liambas on the other hand as an overage JR player (born 2/16/89 - that means he was already 20 at the 9/15/09 start of the current season) is eligible to play professional hockey even if it is not in the NHL. That means he, like most 20 year old Canadian young men playing hockey, could be in the AHL, ECHL. IHL, or whatever other minor hockey leagues de jour. To nonsensically compare Liambas to Jeff Carter is to say Jeff Carter played in the Soo (CHL/OHL) for the 05/06 season. Carter played in the NHL that season. Check your information because it is wrong.

Your Richards example is just as nonsensical as your Carter example. Richards turned 20 on 2/11/05. He WAS NOT an overage JR like Liambas. Copy and past everything I said about Carter above because it applies to Richards as well.

As far as Clutterbuck goes, that is even more nonsensical than your examples of Carter and Richards. Clutterbuck fell into the gap that allows players 19 as of 9/15/XX to turn pro and play in the AHL despite their not being overage JR players if they turn 20 before the end of the calendar year 12/31/XX. Clutterbuck was actually playing for the Houston Aeros of the AHL when he turned 20 (or possibly on his 2 game NHL callup) on 11/8/07. He never set a skate on CHL/OHL ice as a 20 year old regardless of the distinctions of biological age vs. JR eligibility age. Why you pulled his name into this is inexplicable even in light of your clearly not knowing the difference between biological age and JR eligibility age. Where are you getting this obviously erroneous so called information?

If I am "crazy" for actually knowing factual the difference between a 20 year old biological player and a 20 year old OVERAGE JR eligibility classified player what does that make you for not knowing the facts? Out of respect for the Admin & Mods I'll not insert the obvious answer.

Here is more info on CHL (Canadian Hockey League - the overarching body governing the major Canadian JR leagues OHL, QMJHL, WHL) rules and thinking regarding overage (players like Liambas) JR players from the WHL commissioner:

http://communities.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/blogs/slapshots/archive/2009/06/20/whl-not-changing-import-overage-quotas.aspx

Teams are limited to 3 overage (players 20 years old as of the calendar start 9/15/XX) of the NHL season. Actually I think the limit is they can dress 3 per game, but can carry 4 on their roster for some period of time early in the season.

According the WHL commissioner, the purpose of the CHL is:

“(The NHL) is interested in junior-age players eligible for the draft and our responsibility to develop 16-, 17-, 18-year-old players,” said Robison. “If there’s more overage or import players, that would impact on their development.

Anybody with a scintilla of talent that is 20 at the calendar start of the NHL season (as Liambas was since he turned 20 on 2/16/09 which is several months before 9/15/09) plays in the NHL, AHL, ECHL, IHL, or some other loser minor league. The NHL doesn't want a bunch of 20 year old players running around and physically dominating 16-18 year old kids. That dominance can come in the form of a physically developed overage dirty player like Liambas (he's had multiple OHL suspensions, this Fanelli incident is not Liambas' first offense) creating an unsafe environment for legitimate prospects or it can also alter the balance of competition. Take Pens prospect Casey Pierro-Zabotel (CPZ) for example. He turned 20 on 11/18/08. He was not an overage JR last season, but he was eligible to play minor pro if he wanted to. He actually outscored the great Evander Kane in Vancouver of the WHL. Kane just turned 18 on 8/2/09. The NHL is not interested the CHL having a bunch of older players taking ice time away from legitimate NHL prospects. That is why the stats of an older JR player are not indicative of their NHL potential compared to a younger JR player. That is why CPZ is in Wheeling of the ECHL and Kane is doing well for Atlanta of the NHL.

Liambas isn't even an NHL prospect to run around and hit guys. That is why I inserted Steve Webb's JR link above to show he was a moderately productive JR player before becoming the ultimate run around and hit guys but never touch the puck player in the NHL. Liambas was actually 17 (JR & biological age) when he made the Otters (not 18 as you claim). He is (was) a dirty player creating an unsafe environment for legitimate NHL prospects and he was rightly thrown out of the OHL by commissioner Branch.

The TSN clip clearly shows Liambas made no attempt to strip the puck from Fanelli:

http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/clip231322#clip231322

Liambas was at the top of the circles when he basically saw Fanelli in a vulnerable position and he accelerated to charge/board him as hard as he could. The angle around the 10 second mark clearly shows how Liambas followed through with both his shoulder and then raised elbow to drive Fanelli's head into the glass in order to inflict maximum damage. That was his only intent. There was nothing resembling a puck battle there.

If you disagree on the merit of Commissioner Branch's decision to suspend Liambas that is obviously a difference of opinion, but do not post incorrect information about Carter, Richards, and Clutterbuck's JR status and Liambas' profile as an alleged NHL prospect. You are wrong on all counts regarding the last 4.

[ffemtreed]

The TSN clip clearly shows Liambas made no attempt to strip the puck from Fanelli:

Which is exact right hockey play to make. This isn't an inline league, this is competitive ice hockey.

If an NHL player went in and tried to play slappy stick to try and steal the puck instead of taking the man he would be sitting on the bench for the rest of the game.

As far and he drove through him and finished the check, yes momentum will do that, when you are skating at high speed like that you don't have any control in a violent collision. I might be able to agree that this was a bad timed hit that could have been avoided, however I will never buy into the fact that the result of this play was intentional, his only goal was to hurt, and he knew what he was doing.

[Draftnik]

The TSN clip clearly shows Liambas made no attempt to strip the puck from Fanelli:

Which is exact right hockey play to make. This isn't an inline league, this is competitive ice hockey.

If an NHL player went in and tried to play slappy stick to try and steal the puck instead of taking the man he would be sitting on the bench for the rest of the game.

As far and he drove through him and finished the check, yes momentum will do that, when you are skating at high speed like that you don't have any control in a violent collision. I might be able to agree that this was a bad timed hit that could have been avoided, however I will never buy into the fact that the result of this play was intentional, his only goal was to hurt, and he knew what he was doing.

Making a well timed punishing hit is not mutually exclusive from simultaneously trapping the puck and/or preventing the opposing player from moving the puck. Skilled forecheckers can do both at the same time. Unskilled no-talent, non-prospect hacks like Liambas obviously can't. That is why he was playing in the OHL as an overage player instead of playing minor pro like the rest of his hockey playing age group peers.

Also, there is a difference between what is acceptable in the NHL and OHL. This wasn't an NHL game. The OHL has different rules and different interpretations of what is acceptable even for rules they share with the NHL. David Branch made the ruling, not Gary Bettman and/or Collie Campbell.

Liambas is a 20 year old hack. His act was comparable to a College age football player cheap shotting a JV/JR high football player. Liambas deserved the ban IMO, but we can agree to disagree on that count. However, the analogy about NHL rules interpretation is not valid.

[mac5155]

all i can say is

TLDNR

[ffemtreed]

The TSN clip clearly shows Liambas made no attempt to strip the puck from Fanelli:

Which is exact right hockey play to make. This isn't an inline league, this is competitive ice hockey.

If an NHL player went in and tried to play slappy stick to try and steal the puck instead of taking the man he would be sitting on the bench for the rest of the game.

As far and he drove through him and finished the check, yes momentum will do that, when you are skating at high speed like that you don't have any control in a violent collision. I might be able to agree that this was a bad timed hit that could have been avoided, however I will never buy into the fact that the result of this play was intentional, his only goal was to hurt, and he knew what he was doing.

Making a well timed punishing hit is not mutually exclusive from simultaneously trapping the puck and/or preventing the opposing player from moving the puck. Skilled forecheckers can do both at the same time. Unskilled no-talent, non-prospect hacks like Liambas obviously can't. That is why he was playing in the OHL as an overage player instead of playing minor pro like the rest of his hockey playing age group peers.

Also, there is a difference between what is acceptable in the NHL and OHL. This wasn't an NHL game. The OHL has different rules and different interpretations of what is acceptable even for rules they share with the NHL. David Branch made the ruling, not Gary Bettman and/or Collie Campbell.

Liambas is a 20 year old hack. His act was comparable to a College age football player cheap shotting a JV/JR high football player. Liambas deserved the ban IMO, but we can agree to disagree on that count. However, the analogy about NHL rules interpretation is not valid.

The problem with your argument is he was playing in the league legally. Its not like he falsified his birth certificate or lied about something to get into the league. your beef should be with the league for letting a varsity player play against a JV player. You can't fault a player for taking advantage of the opportunities available to him (I don't mean the hit).

I realize this isn't the NHL and they have different rules, but almost all of these kids know they ARE auditioning for the NHL and will do everything they can to stand out to look like an NHL player. This isn't true of just Major Juniors, it trickles down to all levels including Mites, they are going to emulate what the NHL players do and how they react in certain situations.

[Draftnik]

The problem with your argument is he was playing in the league legally. Its not like he falsified his birth certificate or lied about something to get into the league. your beef should be with the league for letting a varsity player play against a JV player. You can't fault a player for taking advantage of the opportunities available to him (I don't mean the hit).

I realize this isn't the NHL and they have different rules, but almost all of these kids know they ARE auditioning for the NHL and will do everything they can to stand out to look like an NHL player. This isn't true of just Major Juniors, it trickles down to all levels including Mites, they are going to emulate what the NHL players do and how they react in certain situations.

I did post earlier in the thread that 20 year old players (in the overage JR sense, not the guys that turn 20 during a season effectively the 2nd from their draft year) should be banned from JR hockey IMO. At that point, the wheat has already been separated from the chaff. The 20 year old wheat is playing at least minor pro; the chaff is still trying to hang on in the CHL or has moved on to something beyond playing hockey for a living.

Branch basically had 2 problems with Liambas' hit:

http://news.therecord.com/Sports/article/624480

Distance traveled & speed. Distance traveled is a clear statement of intent. Liambas really drew a bead on Fanelli from the top of the circles. It wasn't a split second decision. His intent was formed with premeditation. Speed can mean a couple of things. The acceleration also speaks to intent. Speed also refers to tempo IMO. Liambas is capable of playing at a higher speed than Fanelli because of the discrepancy in physical maturity. If Liambas hadn't been a repeat offender and if he had some legitimate hockey skills I don't think he would have been permanently banned by Branch, but at this point in his so called career Liambas doesn't fit into the CHL mold of a developmental prospect and the odds of him turning into one were non-existent. Liambas was easy to discard so Branch could send a message to current OHL players that they can't indiscriminately run around and try to kill other players and it tells parents of future players that the OHL will be a relatively safe environment for them to trust the care/development of their young boys.

The ban fits Branch's past decisions of mandating neck guards, banning headshots, and requiring helmets to stay on during fights. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move to ban overage JR players in the OHL next season.

[penscup]

I still don't think its a charge. That puck was dumped into the corner and it was a foot race to get to it. Its not like the injured player skated from the circle back behind his net with the puck to set up a play. The goalie stopped the puck and it was a race to see which player was going to get the puck.

WHAT?!?!

Not sure what replay you are watching but it was not a foot race to get to the puck AT ALL. The goalie settled the puck for his Dman to play it directly behind the net, not the corner. You seem to be just making B.S. up or something. Fanelli clearly had control of the puck and even made the pass to his teammate before absorbing the hit which is why it easily can be viewed as charging.
It is as clear as day.

With the additional replays posted I don't think Liambus was intentionally trying to injure Fanelli as bad as he did, but it was still a reckless play, and in light of the argument Draftnik makes about setting an example for the league to be viewed as a safe one for other young players looking to develop, a message must be sent that this type of reckless play will no longer be tolerated. If Liambus had no prior suspensions or questionable hits, I would've given him a half season suspension, if he had prior fouls, I am okay with the entire season ban.

Liambus could have made a clean, bonecrushing hit on the play without going high into Fanelli with his elbow and two hands on his stick and destroying him like he did. He chose not to though, and now will pay the price by missing the rest of the season. He made the choice and is a big boy so he can deal with the consequences. If he has enough talent and desire to get to then NHL level he will still eventually make it. My sympathy is fully on Fanelli's side hoping that he makes a full recovery, not with Liambus.

[ffemtreed]

I still don't think its a charge. That puck was dumped into the corner and it was a foot race to get to it. Its not like the injured player skated from the circle back behind his net with the puck to set up a play. The goalie stopped the puck and it was a race to see which player was going to get the puck.

WHAT?!?!

Not sure what replay you are watching but it was not a foot race to get to the puck AT ALL. The goalie settled the puck for his Dman to play it directly behind the net, not the corner. You seem to be just making B.S. up or something. Fanelli clearly had control of the puck and even made the pass to his teammate before absorbing the hit which is why it easily can be viewed as charging.
It is as clear as day.

With the additional replays posted I don't think Liambus was intentionally trying to injure Fanelli as bad as he did, but it was still a reckless play, and in light of the argument Draftnik makes about setting an example for the league to be viewed as a safe one for other young players looking to develop, a message must be sent that this type of reckless play will no longer be tolerated. If Liambus had no prior suspensions or questionable hits, I would've given him a half season suspension, if he had prior fouls, I am okay with the entire season ban.

Liambus could have made a clean, bonecrushing hit on the play without going high into Fanelli with his elbow and two hands on his stick and destroying him like he did. He chose not to though, and now will pay the price by missing the rest of the season. He made the choice and is a big boy so he can deal with the consequences. If he has enough talent and desire to get to then NHL level he will still eventually make it. My sympathy is fully on Fanelli's side hoping that he makes a full recovery, not with Liambus.

It was a foot race between the players. Sure the goalie stopped the puck, but that doesn't mean the forchecker should give up on the puck. The D-man didn't have that puck very long, not even sure it was a clean exchange between him and the goalie. If you watched the video like you claimed to have, you would also see that once the other player did touch the puck he didn't take anymore strides and just glided into the hit, unfortunatly he was skate too hard going after that puck when it was dumped in that he had a LOT of momentum.

You claims that he hit him high are absurd, those slow motion replay's clearly show that this was a shoulder to shoulder check. I also question if some of you people ever had skates on in your lives. When you are skating that fast and hit someone there is NO way you aren't going to continue through the person, esp if you are a lot bigger than them.

[Kraftster]

The hit was unquestionable a charge. Charge + "clean shoulder hit" has the potential to be just as dangerous as a blatant head shot. The play was illegal and extremely reckless.