Ovechkin benched.

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Ovechkin benched.

Postby guiner on Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:01 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=260320023

For part of second and third period last night. No comments from Ovechkin and Hanlon.

Well, I guess the de facto calder trophy winner isn't perfect after all.

g
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:06 pm

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Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:07 pm

It will be interesting to see how the Big O responds to the rebuke:

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20060321-114903-8101r.htm
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Postby Bowser on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:19 pm

you mean AO ignores team play? Never!

Why is this happening at this stage of the season? Stuff like this should be corrected in October, not March. If they truly want to send a message to AO, make him a healthy scratch.

He's nowhere near being the better overall player compared to Crosby. Not even close!
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Postby Jim on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:22 pm

Maybe it is because they are 100% sure they will not make the playoffs and they are in a three way tie for 29th spot and are willing to tank now for a better draft spot.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:23 pm

"It's something, he said, that will be watched more closely. "

You bet your sweet bibby.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:25 pm

Jim wrote:Maybe it is because they are 100% sure they will not make the playoffs and they are in a three way tie for 29th spot and are willing to tank now for a better draft spot.


Nah... I honestly don't think any team (including the Pens) is puposely trying to 'tank' this year.

Although I do think it has everything to do with the Craps poor play.

It's obvious to me that AO has decided the team has nothing to play for, BUT HE DOES, he's putting his personal stats over the team.

Does anyone know if his contract includes a POP for the Calder Cup?
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Postby Jim on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:29 pm

He has put his stats over the team grom the first game of preseason...
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Postby Pitts on Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:00 pm

Agree Jim. Crosby's barely mentioned the Calder race all season, whereas, Ovechkin seems obsessed with it. I think he might have a hang-up about being "shown-up" by a kid 2 years younger than him.

His benching was clearly the result of him trying to pad his stats.
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Postby kovyman1127 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:10 am

Ok...Crosby Koolaide drinkers...to address a few points:

1. When has AO mentioned the Calder?

2. How do you think Sid is a better "overall" player then AO? AO has more points and isn't on the ref's bad side for yapping.
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Postby netwolf on Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:27 am

kovyman1127 wrote:2. How do you think Sid is a better "overall" player then AO? AO has more points and isn't on the ref's bad side for yapping.


I think this is because when you see AO, you see one-on-one moves and highlight goals and a big hit here and there. He is very good at that. Now admittedly, the only complete Caps games I have seen have been against the Pens, and AO has been less impressive in those as compared to the rest of his games, so there may be other things he does well besides the one-on-one stuff, but it is by far the most dominating part of his game.

SC can score, though not at the level AO does. He is also a top-notch playmaker (which is his strength), he wins faceoffs, and is decent along the wall and in the corners.

I still think AO is the obvious choice for the Calder.
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Postby Pitts on Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:56 am

kovyman1127 wrote:1. When has AO mentioned the Calder?

For starters, even before he came to the US, he said he wanted to win the Calder. It was in an interview a few years back.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:08 am

kovyman1127 wrote:Ok...Crosby Koolaide drinkers...to address a few points:

1. When has AO mentioned the Calder?

2. How do you think Sid is a better "overall" player then AO? AO has more points and isn't on the ref's bad side for yapping.


Kovy, Please...

First, you aren't saying that AO doesn't care about the Calder are you? He'd be foolish not to since the standard rookie contract offers financial incentives for winning it, not to mention the prestige.

Second, I'd rather have a player who was team focused and was on the wrong side of the ref's than a player who was selfish and detrimental to the team but on the ref's good side.

I fail to see how a player who stands at center ice putting his team down 5 on 3 while he waits for an outlet pass in a game where they're already down 3 goals, is a complete player, let alone a team player.

I love AO's abilities. He's a joy to watch, both offensively and defensively (when he wants to be), but I'd rather have a player like Crosby on my team. A player who has the ability to blossum into a leader and take his team to the 'Cup.
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Postby Jim on Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:30 am

Pitts wrote:
kovyman1127 wrote:1. When has AO mentioned the Calder?

For starters, even before he came to the US, he said he wanted to win the Calder. It was in an interview a few years back.


Now now... don't bring facts into this!
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Postby Jim on Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:35 am

kovyman1127 wrote:2. How do you think Sid is a better "overall" player then AO? AO has more points and isn't on the ref's bad side for yapping.


How???... by actually watching both players PLAY. Not just looking at a stats sheet and reading a few newspaper articles. You might wat to try it sometime.

I have seen Crosby live about a dozen times and also watched him on tv. I have seen AO live 8 times and also watched him on tv. AO is quite one dimentional. I am not convinced that AO actually realizes that forwards are allowed to play defensively BEFORE the 55 minute mark.

The Caps are running a "New Nickname for AO" contest. I offered "One Trick Pony" and "Mr One Dimentional" I do not think I will win though...
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:20 am

kovyman1127 wrote:Ok...Crosby Koolaide drinkers...to address a few points:

1. When has AO mentioned the Calder?



http://rushockey.com/events.php?i=nhl&s ... ews&id=403


Snippet from the interview:

"A. Ovechkin: By the way, do you happen to know if he’s a rookie? (Staal)

Q: He’s not. Staal played in 2003-04 season, he’s 21 and thus can’t rival you and Croby in the Calder trophy (the trophy awarded to NHL’s best rookie of the season) race. Aren’t you tired of these comparisons to Crosby that are drawn in almost every interview?

A. Ovechkin: Well, what can I say? I treat is a part of the agenda. I always give an honest answer which is I think only about my own performance and not about Crosby. And I’m trying to prove that I deserve the Calder Trophy on the ice. What else can I do?"


Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just naive to think he wouldn't be focused on winning the Calder.
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Postby kovyman1127 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:14 pm

OK:

" Crosby's barely mentioned the Calder race all season, whereas, Ovechkin seems obsessed with it. I think he might have a hang-up about being "shown-up" by a kid 2 years younger than him. "

Where is the proof for this??? Again, quit looking at this through the black and gold glasses?




"For starters, even before he came to the US, he said he wanted to win the Calder. "

So did Crosby?? So...what's the point



"I'd rather have a player who was team focused and was on the wrong side of the ref's than a player who was selfish and detrimental to the team"

So...Crosby yapping and getting 2 minute minors for it is more detrimental than Ovechkin??


"I love AO's abilities. He's a joy to watch, both offensively and defensively (when he wants to be), but I'd rather have a player like Crosby on my team. A player who has the ability to blossum into a leader and take his team to the 'Cup."

Who says AO can't be that kind of player?? And Crosby ISN'T that kind of player now....so, again, quit looking at this with bias.

"I have seen Crosby live about a dozen times and also watched him on tv. I have seen AO live 8 times and also watched him on tv. AO is quite one dimentional. I am not convinced that AO actually realizes that forwards are allowed to play defensively BEFORE the 55 minute mark."

Ok...now explain to me why Crosby is a -8 and AO is a plus 2?? Both on terrible teams....again, I hate to keep taking you guys to school...but come on...

Also, I never said that AO OR SC wouldn't be going for the Calder...its just AO "admits" that he is going for it.

I think this thread is amusing....if the Pens ended up with AO last year and the caps got SC this year....you would be saying the same stuff...but in reverse.

You guys need to learn to be "objective".
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Postby Pitts on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:38 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:OK:

" Crosby's barely mentioned the Calder race all season, whereas, Ovechkin seems obsessed with it. I think he might have a hang-up about being "shown-up" by a kid 2 years younger than him. "

Where is the proof for this??? Again, quit looking at this through the black and gold glasses?


Sorry Mr. Caps fan, but I don't have to give you any proof. The words "I think" generally mean it is opinion and not fact.

Also, I have praised Ovechkin many times, but you don't need to know that, or do I care that you know that. Actually, it was all just conversation...you've turned this thread into a war of requirements. Be on your merry way.
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Postby Pitts on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:41 pm

Oh, just one more! ...

kovyman1127 wrote:Ok...now explain to me why Crosby is a -8 and AO is a plus 2?? Both on terrible teams....again, I hate to keep taking you guys to school...but come on...

Maybe because Crosby actually tries to play defense, while AO stands at the redline waiting for breakaways to pad his goal totals. :D
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Postby kovyman1127 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:42 pm

Ummm...no....I'm pointing out your biases toward the "hometown team" (namely Crosby) and you guys don't like it.

I don't mind discussion (that's what LGP is for)....but for you guys to post crap like this on this board, without facts backing it up, is poor "blogmanship."
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Postby kovyman1127 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:44 pm

"Maybe because Crosby actually tries to play defense, while AO stands at the redline waiting for breakaways to pad his goal totals"

Again...where is the proof?? Show me links to the game, in this day and age of the NHL systems, where you have seen AO do that?

I've watched TONS of Caps games this year...and I haven't seen him doing that at all.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:46 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:OK:

" Crosby's barely mentioned the Calder race all season, whereas, Ovechkin seems obsessed with it. I think he might have a hang-up about being "shown-up" by a kid 2 years younger than him. "

Where is the proof for this??? Again, quit looking at this through the black and gold glasses?


Do you just spout this stuff without reading the links?

Maybe you should click on the links and actually read the article where AO was talking about BOTH Crosby and Staal in reference to the Calder. So, there's your proof.

Your item number #1: "1. When has AO mentioned the Calder? " is just plain wrong. ADMIT IT.


kovyman1127 wrote:"For starters, even before he came to the US, he said he wanted to win the Calder. "

So did Crosby?? So...what's the point


You're the one who said AO wasn't talking Calder not us. We admit Crosby was, and even said it was natural because rookie contracts typically included financial incentives for winning the Calder.

kovyman1127 wrote:"I'd rather have a player who was team focused and was on the wrong side of the ref's than a player who was selfish and detrimental to the team"

So...Crosby yapping and getting 2 minute minors for it is more detrimental than Ovechkin??


HUH? What have you been drinking? That makes no sense at all.

I never said Crosby's yapping was more detrimental than AO's "ME MYSELF and I" routine.

Crosby getting the occasional two minutes puts his team at a disadvantage and shows his current immaturity. I wish he'd stop it. I've been saying that nearly all year. However, how can you possibly say you prefer to have a selfish player, no matter how talented, over a guy of similar talent who has never shown he's anything but a team player?

Didn't you learn anything by watching Jagr? I'll take Ronnie Francis any day over Jamior Jagr if I'm building a team that might compete for the Cup. Just look at Jagr's actions again last night against the Flyers. AO is following in the exact same footsteps.

kovyman1127 wrote:
"I love AO's abilities. He's a joy to watch, both offensively and defensively (when he wants to be), but I'd rather have a player like Crosby on my team. A player who has the ability to blossum into a leader and take his team to the 'Cup."

Who says AO can't be that kind of player?? And Crosby ISN'T that kind of player now....so, again, quit looking at this with bias.


See above. AO wasn't benched because he was a team player, I'll type this slowly so you can follow along:

He was benched the other night because HE WASN'T a team player.

Just what has Sid done or said that would indicate he's not. In fact, just yesterday an article was posted about Sid's ability to interact with MAF and Army and his desire to learn French to smooth relations with both french-Canadian players and fans.

I defy you to cite an example that #87 isn't a team player.

kovyman1127 wrote:"I have seen Crosby live about a dozen times and also watched him on tv. I have seen AO live 8 times and also watched him on tv. AO is quite one dimentional. I am not convinced that AO actually realizes that forwards are allowed to play defensively BEFORE the 55 minute mark."

Ok...now explain to me why Crosby is a -8 and AO is a plus 2?? Both on terrible teams....again, I hate to keep taking you guys to school...but come on...


Taking us to school???... only if your sitting in the little desk with the Ink well and taking recess twice a day.

Plus/Minus is the single most misleading stat in sports. It's a personal stat that indicates how well you're playing as a unit, even a team.

I'll grant you that AO has a better +/- but his plus minus is certainly not because he camps out on the red-line during a power play.[/quote]

kovyman1127 wrote:Also, I never said that AO OR SC wouldn't be going for the Calder...its just AO "admits" that he is going for it.


Wow, how quickly you forget your point #1: "
1. When has AO mentioned the Calder? "

You said it. Plain and simple. Nice try to change history though.


kovyman1127 wrote:I think this thread is amusing....if the Pens ended up with AO last year and the caps got SC this year....you would be saying the same stuff...but in reverse.

You guys need to learn to be "objective".


Objective... are you reading? My exact quote was ""I love AO's abilities. He's a joy to watch, both offensively and defensively (when he wants to be)"

You really ought to see if you can find your old "Dick and Jane" books, you're reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:47 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:"Maybe because Crosby actually tries to play defense, while AO stands at the redline waiting for breakaways to pad his goal totals"

Again...where is the proof?? Show me links to the game, in this day and age of the NHL systems, where you have seen AO do that?

I've watched TONS of Caps games this year...and I haven't seen him doing that at all.


Pay attention man!

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20060 ... -8101r.htm

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=159636&hubname=

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01994.html
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Postby netwolf on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:48 pm

I don't see the problem with AO wanting to win the Calder. I would want any rookies on my team to shoot for that too. Stands to reason that whomever is the best rookie is going a long way to help their team succeed, right?

To reiterate, I think AO will and should win the Calder. However, I also think that Crosby is better than Ovechkin as far as the total package goes, and once you give Crosby 2 more years to mature (physically and emotionally - whihc will put him whre Ovechkin is now at 20 years old) you're gonna have one helluva player. At 18 he already is.

Now in AO's defense, I have not seen many of his games outside of the ones he played against us, so I can't really speak to whether the "one trick pony" line is fair, but even if it is, so what? It's a darn good trick! People got on Jagr (and still do) about his lack of defense and I have always thought that was like complaining about lack of trunk space after buying a Ferrari. Those guys get (or will get in AO's case) big money because they can put up points, not because they are defensively responsible. Let them do what they are good at.
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Postby HitSomeBody on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:51 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:Ummm...no....I'm pointing out your biases toward the "hometown team" (namely Crosby) and you guys don't like it.

I don't mind discussion (that's what LGP is for)....but for you guys to post crap like this on this board, without facts backing it up, is poor "blogmanship."


Game, Set, Match, now sit down Little Kovy Man and let someone else take a shot.
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