Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

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Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby npv708 on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:23 pm

I'm watching the game on versus tonight between the Thrashers and the Flyers, and I noticed something...Ilya Kovalchuk looks like he wants to get out of there and fast, and I don't blame him. he has two years left on his contract ,so that would be a little more than a rental player, but would probably take approximately a similar package to bring him here. I don't think Shero will get rid of Staal, so I think there might be other interchangeable parts that the trash might take, ie. feds, dupuis, a defensemen whos not gogo, whitney, or letang. But I think it could get done, plus his salary isn't huge, like marion gaborik huge so its manageable...

whatcha think?
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:40 pm

If they got him to play with Sid or Malkin for that matter, they could just send out 3 defensemen. People are going to overblow the little pointing incident and say that Crosby wouldn't want to play with him, but the fact of the matter is, Kovalchuk has said that Crosby is among his favorite players in the NHL and Crosby would have no problem playing with Kovalchuk if it meant success. That said, I don't care for a deal like that.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Stoosh on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:47 pm

I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Gaborik, and I think it would make more sense.

I just don't know, though. I think the odds of them making another Hossa-type deal (either in the near future or at the deadline) are slim at best.

First, it depends on whether Don Waddell would deal him. Atlanta is struggling to fill their building as it is, and they likely won't get equal return back for him in terms players capable of drawing fans into the building; people aren't going to pay to watch Jordan Staal and Ryan Whitney.

Then again, Waddell might not have a choice if Kovalchuk decides to pull a Gaborik and make no real effort to negotiate an extension with Atlanta. Waddell might have no choice but to trade him, and he'll be able to command higher return for him this year because Kovalchuk isn't a playoff rental.

I do think you're way off, npv, on what Atlanta would want in exchange for Kovalchuk. He's a franchise-caliber player. They're not going to take some journeyman player like Dupuis or Fedotenko. I love both of those guys, but they're going to want players they can build around.

The Pens would still need to clear just as much cap room as it would take to get Gaborik (about $6.5M). If Whitney and/or Gonchar was healthy, maybe it would be more feasible. The Pens do have depth on defense to move once one or both of those guys get back. But who knows how long it'll take for Whitney to get back in game shape and when - for that matter - Gonchar would even be back?

It would take at least Staal, one of the three young defensemen (Whit, Letang or Goligoski) and a first-round pick to get the discussion started.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:53 pm

I'd think Staal OR one of those defensemen along with that pick would be where the negotiation would start. Staal plus one of them and the pick would be overpayment.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby demangone on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:39 pm

I say, see what kind of a season Havlat has and get him if he's able to stay healthy, which is fairly unlikely. As much as I like Gaborik, I'd rather have Havlat. Kovalchuk would be awesome, but I don't ever seeing that happen.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Stoosh on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:58 pm

I'll be honest, I haven't exactly been disappointed with Fedotenko and Satan to this point anyway.

And if they're going to make any sort of trade for a higher-quality winger, they might be better off dealing someone like Staal for a scoring winger who fits the age range of the rest of the core.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby André on Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:20 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I'd think Staal OR one of those defensemen along with that pick would be where the negotiation would start. Staal plus one of them and the pick would be overpayment.


I really don't think so. Kovalchuk's still young too, remember? And an elite offensive winger.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:48 am

André wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd think Staal OR one of those defensemen along with that pick would be where the negotiation would start. Staal plus one of them and the pick would be overpayment.


I really don't think so. Kovalchuk's still young too, remember? And an elite offensive winger.


He's also gone long before they are gonna be in any position to win whether or not they trade him.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby André on Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:10 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
André wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd think Staal OR one of those defensemen along with that pick would be where the negotiation would start. Staal plus one of them and the pick would be overpayment.


I really don't think so. Kovalchuk's still young too, remember? And an elite offensive winger.


He's also gone long before they are gonna be in any position to win whether or not they trade him.


Yeah they should want to keep him. Thing is he might want to get out of there though.

I'd do Staal and Whitney for him right away. You'd just split Sid and Malkin again, Talbot is fine as a third line center and the defense really is looking pretty good. Whitney's upside and contract are pretty sweet though. But come one, it's Kovalchuck =)
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:33 am

Kovalchuk is really at best a two zone player, thats the only reason I wouldn't want to give up someone with Staal's upside along with another guy that projects to be a top 4 quality defender while throwing in a first round pick. It just seems a bit much. I do like Kovalchuk, but that seems to be a bit excessive. 2 roster players or a roster player and that pick make sense to me, but not all 3.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Samsdog on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:20 am

Agree with a lot of stuff that's been said about his value (high quality forward, young gifted D, and a first rounder), and I think the rumors swirling around him, making the VERY large stretch assumption that they're true, probably mean he's told Waddell he has no intention of resigning and they should consider dealing him while they can get top return. He's played out his whole career in Atlanta, it's not too hard to imagine him having the courtesy to give them the heads up.

That said, signing him would be as big or bigger a problem than would be signing Hossa, given that Kovalchuk is, next to AO, the most gifted goal-scorer in the league right now. And, unlike Hossa, Kovalchuk can be counted upon to be THE man. I still think a deal similar to what Hossa was going to be offered would get signed but in the end a considerable chunk of salary would have to be moved, which in turn would screw with the balance. Honestly, I don't see this deal happening. Love Kovalchuk though.

I am interested to see what happens when Gonchar's 5 million is off the books. I know Letang and Gogo will need raises but I doubt that combined they'll be making that considering they're both clearly in the development stage. Perhaps some cap room for a very good winger for a few years?
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Nizzy on Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:21 am

lol this thread wins on so many levels.

after malkin, and how much I love him just blasting the puck, being all russian... I say go for it. Pittsburgh now will have two south teams, with Atlanta being the new one with Armstrong, Christensen, Staal, Gogo, Espo (if you count that one).

I love Staal, love defensive styles of play... however seening Malkin & Kovalchuk just blasting it on the point together would be too awesome.

Michelle Therrien: KOVACHOOOO
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:08 am

I wonder if Kovachoo will point at Sid every game if he were a Pen...?
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Pitts on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:34 am

Atlanta's problem is very simple: Don Waddell. I really can't believe that guy still has a job. He should have been canned 2 years ago!

I recently read a quote from Kovachuk stating he wanted to remain in Atlanta and help/be responsible for turning that franchise around. I would agree that his play indicates otherwise as he appears to be mimicking Hossa's "I'm gonna suck till you trade me" plan. He would be a welcome addition to this team IMO.

On a side note, I can't help but feel bad that Colby Armstrong got shafted at sent to that hell-hole.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby meecrofilm on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:36 am

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:I wonder if Kovachoo will point at Sid every game if he were a Pen...?


Probably.

"Hey, thanks for that sick pass. I'll actually be finishing those for you, so, keep 'em coming."
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Kicksave on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:37 am

I'm of the opinion that putting those two on a line would be an epic failure. There is only one puck out there, all 3 players thrive on carrying it into the zone.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Nizzy on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:45 am

meecrofilm wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:I wonder if Kovachoo will point at Sid every game if he were a Pen...?


Probably.

"Hey, thanks for that sick pass. I'll actually be finishing those for you, so, keep 'em coming."


haahah, I actually just laughed a bit out loud at work. I needed that, thanks!
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby André on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:55 am

In a heartbeat (almost, and if we know there's room). This especially considering his age.

I'd much rather start with:

Kovalchuck - Crosby - X
X - Malkin - X
X - Talbot - X
X - X - X

X - X
X - X
X - X

Than

X - Crosby - X
X - Malkin - X
X - Staal - X
X - Talbot - X

Whitney - X
X - X
X - X

Those X's can fill out nicely either way (unless Kovalchuk wants like 9 mil), I mean look at the D right now without 3 of its top 4 guys. Staal as third line center is awesome but the difference between him and Talbot on the third line is not close impact wise to the difference between someone like Fedetenko or Satan next to Sid instead of Kovalchuk.
Last edited by André on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:09 pm

I honestly think we'd have a better shot at getting Kovalchuk rather then Gaborik or the Sedin twins.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:26 pm

I've been thinking about this more and more, and I like it a lot. Kovalchuk seems like a pretty good guy outside of that whole taunting Crosby incident, which I actually thought was kind of funny at the time anyway. The pens should acquire as many Euros as possible to bring the wrath of Cherry.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Sabres_Fan on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:53 pm

Kovalchuk would sign for 5 years 18 million so he could play on Sids line.... U heard it here first
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Pitts on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:03 pm

Sabres_Fan wrote:Kovalchuk would sign for 5 years 18 million so he could play on Sids line.... U heard it here first

That's awesome! You gotta link??
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Samsdog on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:07 pm

SolidSnake wrote:I honestly think we'd have a better shot at getting Kovalchuk rather then Gaborik or the Sedin twins.


Seconded. But more than 1 out of 10,000,000 isn't good. Jk, but I do think even though there is a bigger chance here it's still not a big one. And I kind of agree with Kicksave too that it might not work well, they're both kind of puckhogs (I mean that in the best possible way. Superstars like to carry the puck, no offense meant.) But if it did, it sure would be puurtty.
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby WWGRD on Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:00 pm

Pitts wrote:
Sabres_Fan wrote:Kovalchuk would sign for 5 years 18 million so he could play on Sids line.... U heard it here first

That's awesome! You gotta link??


Not yet, but should be on TIOPS soon..
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Re: Forget Gaborik part 2, how about this...

Postby Samsdog on Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:32 pm

WWGRD wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Sabres_Fan wrote:Kovalchuk would sign for 5 years 18 million so he could play on Sids line.... U heard it here first

That's awesome! You gotta link??


Not yet, but should be on TIOPS soon..


Score.
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