Fantasy Hockey Results

[bhaw]

I just want to say to all the people who laughed at me for taking Olli Jokinen in both of my leagues: suck it

[Pavel Bure]

Blind dog finding a bone etc. etc. etc.

[Pavel Bure]

Just moved Krejci for E. Staal. Hmmmmmm.

[bhaw]

Patience with Downie has finally paid off. Back to getting points along with his PIMs.

[Mongoose87]

I am so tired of Bryzgalov.

[Fire0nice228]

Got offered Joe Thornton for Semin in a league that counts G, A, pts, =/-,gwg,blks.. 14 team league, 17 man roster plus 2 ir spot, just picked Henrique off waivers as best avail Center by overall yahoo ranking.

my Cs are Kopitar, Crosby , Bozak, Henrique with Sid on IR of course and Bozak is hurt but I do not have him on IR (no spot left).

Wings are Pominville, JVR, Semin, Moulson, Eric Cole, Alfredson,

I just lost Wisniewski off my D corp and am stuck with an underperforming to date Goligoski, Keith,Nisky,Carle.

I am liking the deal because Jumbo, Kopitar, Crosby would be stacked at C when Sid returns (hopefully) by playoff time, but I am not liking the deal because Thornton only has 2 more pooints than Bozak currently does and if the pace stays the same and Bozak plays with Kessel and Lupul all season Joe wouldnt be that much of an upgrade, plus Semin is finally starting to put up some points in the last 2-3 weeks. Furthermore, David Clarkson is the best available FA winger by ranking, which isn't saying much as the league doesnt count PIMs. But if Semin goes back to his old was I'd easily get the better deal by taking Thornton.. what do you guys think? I currently sit 3rd in the league which I'm quite pleased with considering I took Sid with the 16th overall pick and hes only played 8 games..

[PghSkins]

Timely return for Marc Staal as I send Ehrhoff to the IR.

[Mongoose87]

Semin is just catching fire and Thornton's not having a great year. I'd stick to my guns.

[npv708]

Timely return for Marc Staal as I send Ehrhoff to the IR.

I wish Yahoo would put him on IR already. I have so many injured defensemen right now.

Byfuglien, Green, Erhoff are all injured.

[Pavel Bure]

Yeah they need to put Wiz on IR as well. Guess the BJs haven't done it yet.

[Fire0nice228]

Timely return for Marc Staal as I send Ehrhoff to the IR.

I wish Yahoo would put him on IR already. I have so many injured defensemen right now.

Byfuglien, Green, Erhoff are all injured.

.Buff injured or missing a game or two because of a childbirth?

[npv708]

Timely return for Marc Staal as I send Ehrhoff to the IR.

I wish Yahoo would put him on IR already. I have so many injured defensemen right now.

Byfuglien, Green, Erhoff are all injured.

.Buff injured or missing a game or two because of a childbirth?

Injured.

Out at least the next 4 games.

[Pavel Bure]

I hate when a player I'd be willing to take a chance on hits waivers and I have no one I'm willing to drop to grab him. Stastny just hit waivers in my one league and I have no one I want to drop. E. Staal is a better player than him and I just traded for him, I hate R. Miller right now and while I want to drop him obviously I know way better he's just annoying. Hate seeing a guy like that out there.

[mikey287]

I rarely ever ask for advice on a trade...but I'm kind of curious on this one...

Background: It's a 14-team dynasty league, with a salary cap of $89.3M based on actual player salaries (not cap hit). Who ever you gots, you keeps (no set amount of keepers or anything). 25-man rosters, 25-man minor team, 15-man junior team. (So, 65 x 14 teams = players "kept") Standard scoring rules basically. I picked up the team that finished dead last last season and after the summer I have them in the top-3 all season. I just made a bit of a depth move (got Pascal Dupuis and Olivier Roy and late picks for Zuccarello and mid-round picks).

I'm close to the salary cap, my team is pretty strong, especially at center and left wing.

Anyway, here's the framework of the deal...I won't say what side is mine, just what side do you think you'd rather have knowing that it's a long-term league, goaltending and right wingers are valuable (both are hard to come by) and that one team is a fringe playoff team and the other should be competing for the championship...

Viktor Stalberg ($0.9M)
Jakub Voracek ($2.25)
Marek Zidlicky ($4M)
Travis Hamonic ($0.9)
Leland Irving ($0.6)
Niko Hovinen (N/A)
probably another roster player or decent prospect, maybe a pick

for

Henrik Zetterberg ($6M)
Bryan Little ($2.5M)
Luca Sbisa ($1.2M)
Jason LaBarbera ($1.2M)
a couple prospects


Thoughts? Zetterberg is the best player in the deal, naturally, but if he continues to slump, he's not worth the money. Getting two goalies prospects in one deal is a big deal, as Irving might take over for Kipper soon and Hovinen has been dominant in Finland this year...Bryan Little and Jakub Voracek have comparable upsides. Zidlicky is expensive for not much production and he was on waivers once this year. Hamonic > Sbisa in all facets. Stalberg sometimes plays top line, sometimes 4th, and it's not impossible that he's never heard from again after a year or two...

[bhaw]

Based on the way you talk about it, I'm assuming you are getting the top group and giving up the bottom group.

If the team getting the top group is the one that's borderline playoffs, I like the deal from their perspective as the only one you are really giving up is Zetterberg, who is replaceable IMO.

If I'm wrong and the group competing for the championship is getting the top group, I don't particularly like it.

[mikey287]

Well, early spoiler...I'm getting the top group.

Zetterberg is a fine player, the original deal swapped out Bozak for Little...I haven't even called up Bozak this year, Sbisa is useless and I haven't let LOLbarbera in a game this year...it was literally Zetterberg for all that. Now it's Zetterberg for all that, except Little and Voracek cancel...

In context, my other C/LW (such as Zetty): Antropov, Backstrom, Cogliano, Datsyuk, RNH, Stepan, Connolly, Higgins, Korpikoski, Hagelin, Poni, Duper, Pouliot, Bozak, Greening and other spare sparts...

So, replacing Zetterberg with Stalberg in that group doesn't cost me a ton.

My defense is patchwork...(Campbell, Girardi, McBain, Corvo, Bergeron, Spurgeon, Weber and then scrubs: Stralman, John Moore, Cole, Weircioch, Goloubef, Barker). Zidlicky would be helpful in that group...I guess...but maybe I can sub out Zidlicky for a different player and then try to parlay him in into a d-man...

Leland Irving looks decent enough where Calgary will run with him and hopefully deal Kipper as soon as the deadline. But that's optimistic. Hovinen is killing it this year, it can't hurt to have him around just in case....

Hamonic helps me in PIMs, my worst category in every fantasy league because it's the dumbest thing in the world...

I hate giving up the best player in any deal...but if Zetty keeps playing like garbage, I can use that cap space elsewhere. Hell, I could probably steal Kevin Bieksa for nothing too from a different team...

[Kraftster]

Hmm.. isn't Zetterberg up over $7M? I'd be curious to know what type of return you shoot for per $X. The little bit I've dabbled in salary leagues, that seems to be the most important thing. Of course, depending upon your roster size, the cap that you have may not be prohibitive in the least.

I really wonder how much dead weight you really shed in the deal if you are taking back Zidlicky at $4M. There's certainly hope there for better production this year -- in fact, you almost have to believe there will be. The Spurgeon (and now Prosser) injury came right at the right time for Zidlicky to have a chance to run with the PP. I believe the top unit remained Spurgeon's when Zidlicky originally returned.

I agree with you on Little = Voracek. Call that a wash and ignore it. (though does Little have RW elig? I guess if all else is equal, given what you've said about RW, Jake has a bit more value?).

If you've not gotten Labarbera into the line up this year, will you really get Irving in there? Your view of him seems to be on the (quite) optimistic side as far as the short-term goes. Seems like a significant gamble to add him in the hopes that he helps lead you on a championship run. Particularly when, his utmost 2012 upside has him starting for a bad team behind a pretty bad (worse so long as Gio is out) defense.

It would seem fair to boil it down to Zetterberg + Sbisa for Stalberg + Zidlicky + Hamonic. That's saving you about $1.5 (call it $2 if we account for Labarbera/Irving). I don't know. I think its hard to like it if your goal is to try to improve your chances this season. Is Zidlicky at $4M really a lot less of a cap burn than Zetterberg at $6? I agree completely with your assessment of Stalberg, so, seems like hoping for a lot if you want him to help get you to the championship. No question that Hamonic > Sbisa, especially if you count hits. That swap should look good long term too, I'd think.

It leaves me wanting more with your stated goal of looking towards this season. Is the potential other roster player/good prospect (I'd opt roster player if going for it now) you could get in there + a salary dump Bieksa pick up enough to provide that "more".... I dunno. At that point you're looking at cutting current players to fit those players into your line up, so, what's the difference between those guys and your bottom couple? I guess Bieksa looks better than Stralman, Moore, Cole, Patrick W, etc. if $$ is not an issue.

I'd say it'd be tough for me to accept shipping Zetty in a deal if looking to go for it now. I'm facing a similar offer in a league with a similar player (age, position wise) in Marleau. Good "value" trade, but my goal is to compete now, and I can't lose sight of that. These guys (Zett, Marleau) are the types of guys you want to add to make a run. I'm finding it hard to see subtracting Marleau helping me go for it now unless I'm dealing an undperformer for two very steady guys having good years -- not hopes and prayers. You've seen Zetts' worst and you've probably seen Stalberg's best. Odds are hanging onto Z gives you a better shot, I'd say.

[mikey287]

Hmm.. isn't Zetterberg up over $7M? I'd be curious to know what type of return you shoot for per $X. The little bit I've dabbled in salary leagues, that seems to be the most important thing. Of course, depending upon your roster size, the cap that you have may not be prohibitive in the least.

First, thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. Yeah, Zetterberg is 6 or 7, I forget, I was just going off the top of my head. I don't have a hard and fast rule for production vs. salary...I just know I'm not getting it from Zetterberg. As childish as it sounds, I'm more leinient for players I like - I don't like Zetterberg. I mean, my entire fantasy football team is Indianapolis Colts - if I go down, I'd rather go down with my guys. If I win, I win because I like good players. Whatever...I don't have a lot of science, I just call'em like I see'em. I have an idea in my head about what I want, nothing more.

I really wonder how much dead weight you really shed in the deal if you are taking back Zidlicky at $4M. There's certainly hope there for better production this year -- in fact, you almost have to believe there will be. The Spurgeon (and now Prosser) injury came right at the right time for Zidlicky to have a chance to run with the PP. I believe the top unit remained Spurgeon's when Zidlicky originally returned.

I shed weight in the sense that Zidlicky can clear waivers (any player that makes over $1.5 million, requires waivers to go down)...Zidlicky cleared once about a week ago...he'll clear again. Yeah, I was just watching the Wild/Canucks game and the top PP unit had Spurgeon and Zidlicky...Spurgeon just a blocked a shot on the inside of his leg and limped off...so who knows there...

I agree with you on Little = Voracek. Call that a wash and ignore it. (though does Little have RW elig? I guess if all else is equal, given what you've said about RW, Jake has a bit more value?).

Both have RW eligibility. So, a wash indeed.

If you've not gotten Labarbera into the line up this year, will you really get Irving in there? Your view of him seems to be on the (quite) optimistic side as far as the short-term goes. Seems like a significant gamble to add him in the hopes that he helps lead you on a championship run. Particularly when, his utmost 2012 upside has him starting for a bad team behind a pretty bad (worse so long as Gio is out) defense.

Should have made it more clear. Lolbarbera doesn't play because I have Howard and Backstrom who are killing it this year. I don't need Irving to play now, I need Irving to play down the road. LaBarbera would only hurt me if he played. He blows. The guy just traded Montoya and Bobrovsky for Halak, so he needs a spare. And that should help push him further out of the playoffs.

It would seem fair to boil it down to Zetterberg + Sbisa for Stalberg + Zidlicky + Hamonic. That's saving you about $1.5 (call it $2 if we account for Labarbera/Irving). I don't know. I think its hard to like it if your goal is to try to improve your chances this season. Is Zidlicky at $4M really a lot less of a cap burn than Zetterberg at $6? I agree completely with your assessment of Stalberg, so, seems like hoping for a lot if you want him to help get you to the championship. No question that Hamonic > Sbisa, especially if you count hits. That swap should look good long term too, I'd think.

It leaves me wanting more with your stated goal of looking towards this season. Is the potential other roster player/good prospect (I'd opt roster player if going for it now) you could get in there + a salary dump Bieksa pick up enough to provide that "more".... I dunno. At that point you're looking at cutting current players to fit those players into your line up, so, what's the difference between those guys and your bottom couple? I guess Bieksa looks better than Stralman, Moore, Cole, Patrick W, etc. if $$ is not an issue.

I'd say it'd be tough for me to accept shipping Zetty in a deal if looking to go for it now. I'm facing a similar offer in a league with a similar player (age, position wise) in Marleau. Good "value" trade, but my goal is to compete now, and I can't lose sight of that. These guys (Zett, Marleau) are the types of guys you want to add to make a run. I'm finding it hard to see subtracting Marleau helping me go for it now unless I'm dealing an undperformer for two very steady guys having good years -- not hopes and prayers. You've seen Zetts' worst and you've probably seen Stalberg's best. Odds are hanging onto Z gives you a better shot, I'd say.

I'm always thinking long-term, even when trying to win now. I just sent out 4 messages to GMs asking for prospects that I like...even though, I'm poised to win a championship, I'm always thinking future.

Your last part is the part I struggle with the most. The situation should be reversed, I should be moving these essential spare parts for "now" help. But Zetterberg isn't helping now and he may hinder my future. Leland Irving is worth his weight in gold in this league, as strange as it sounds. I'm gonna try to work some magic in the deal, get little bits and pieces pushed in my direction further and see what it's like when the dust settles...

I pulled off one blockbuster with this guy before, just before the season started that really helped turn this "franchise" around...

He got:
Paul Stastny
David Perron
Jonas Hiller
Sam Gagner
Peter Regin
Justin Shugg

I get:
Nicklas Backstrom
Niklas Backstrom
Bryan Little
Jamie McBain
Guillaume Latendresse
Benoit Pouliot
Harri Sateri
Anders Lee

Some might look at that as me having some "room to give" per se...since, early precincts reporting that to be a landslide win for me...if I lose this deal by a little bit (which is the most I would ever allow in my "trade tolerance"), I'm still net positive. Reverse justification, sure. But, I feel pressured to get good goalie prospects.

[Kraftster]

Yeah, I more or less disregarded the long-term impact of the deal because of your win now stance.

I've recently taken on a goal of disregarding my personal feeling on players as much as I can and avoiding having my team be in "competitive limbo" where I'm always looking for good "value" trades. That's been my thing up until this point. If I can trade a net 7 for a net 8, I'll do it just to add the value -- asset management, always looking to improve the overall value of guys on my team. Now, I'm realizing that this strategy, and always coveting and holding onto my young prospects that I have crushes on, is leaving me with a middle-of-the-pack team more often than not. Looks bright down the road, lots of nice young players, etc. But, questionable whether it will all come together. I'm trying to position myself to be at the top of the pack or at the bottom more often than not now, though. Sometimes you inevitably end up in that competitive middle, and sometimes you need a transition year. But, if I am in that spot, then I'm always looking towards optimizing my team in my target year, etc.

So, its with that new found ambition that I am approaching your trade. Your comment about young goalies being gold and this being too good a trade to pass up reminds me of me up until I've switched philosophies. At the end of the day you have to play FH for fun, so, whatever brings that ya gotta go with. If I may, it sounds like you knew/know that this deal doesn't exactly help you this year but you find yourself wanting to do it anyway so you needed to talk it out to convince yourself to just go for it, which it sounds like you're going to do. Nothing wrong with that.

[mikey287]

Yeah, I don't want to give the wrong impression either - at the same time. I covet "my guys". Look at that trade above...Backstrom (Wsh) is my guy. Jamie McBain is my guy. Gui Latendresse is my guy. Harri Sateri is my guy. Paul Stastny is not. Sam Gagner is not. And so on...

That said, I'm a meticulous little asset manager. Even if this trade doesn't give that impression...this is a framework, not a finished product. I'm always conniving my way to better assets when I can. "Well, you definitely don't need this prospect any more now that you got this guy" ... "I'll do it for a conditional pick next year and the right to swap fourth round picks this year" ... or I'll set guidelines in a deal, and walk over what looks like the silliest thing but I have a price to sell at and a price to buy at.

Basically, I want to be a major asset manager, but I want to get "my guys" in at the same time. Zetterberg isn't my guy. And I don't feel this is so outrageous of a trade that I'm making a mistake. I mean, I got Dupuis for nothing basically and he's scoring at the same pace as Zetterberg right now...

I'll see what the final deal looks like, and I'll report back to the thread...see if I can mold this into something a little better for me...thanks again!

[mikey287]

After short negotiation, I got him to propose this to me...

He gets:

Henrik Zetterberg
Luca Sbisa
Jason LaBarbera
Bryan Little
Cam Barker
Philippe Paradis
T.J. Galiardi

I get:

Michael Cammalleri
Viktor Stalberg
Jakub Voracek
Marek Zidlicky
Nick Palmieri
Travis Hamonic
Leland Irving
Niko Hovinen

I think I'm on board with that, and might squeeze a pick or prospect more out of it for me...

It's a shame I can't get him to switch Little for Bozak...but leaving Little in, there's only 2 pieces I've ever used or will use...Sbisa sucks in fantasy I only played him sometimes for PIMs (replaced by Hamonic), Barker is a wuss, Paradis sucks, Galiardi sucks...

Cammy is one of my guys, so is JVo, so is Hamonic, Palmieri is a young winger...I get all useful pieces, minus Hovinen who might be useful down the road. But everything I get, is usuable if not this year, then definitely next. All my trash + Zetterberg and enough pieces to probably make me the deepest or second deepest team in the league. The salary isn't a problem because I can send Zidlicky packing if needed and not bat an eyelash.

[Malkamaniac]

I have Bryzgalov and Loungo, oh yea and I have that bum Brodeur who I've been at odds with to drop for weeks because he's playing so poorly that nobody wants to nab him.

[Kraftster]

After short negotiation, I got him to propose this to me...

He gets:

Henrik Zetterberg
Luca Sbisa
Jason LaBarbera
Bryan Little
Cam Barker
Philippe Paradis
T.J. Galiardi

I get:

Michael Cammalleri
Viktor Stalberg
Jakub Voracek
Marek Zidlicky
Nick Palmieri
Travis Hamonic
Leland Irving
Niko Hovinen

I think I'm on board with that, and might squeeze a pick or prospect more out of it for me...

It's a shame I can't get him to switch Little for Bozak...but leaving Little in, there's only 2 pieces I've ever used or will use...Sbisa sucks in fantasy I only played him sometimes for PIMs (replaced by Hamonic), Barker is a wuss, Paradis sucks, Galiardi sucks...

Cammy is one of my guys, so is JVo, so is Hamonic, Palmieri is a young winger...I get all useful pieces, minus Hovinen who might be useful down the road. But everything I get, is usuable if not this year, then definitely next. All my trash + Zetterberg and enough pieces to probably make me the deepest or second deepest team in the league. The salary isn't a problem because I can send Zidlicky packing if needed and not bat an eyelash.

Oh yeah, that came together pretty nicely. I hate Cammy, personally, but adding he and Palmieri (big fan, especially with the situation in Anaheim) to the deal and seeing the extra parts given up by you certainly helps to swing it more in your direction.

[Kraftster]

Well, while this thread is active, I'll get some thoughts on the trade I've been considering for a while now in one of my money leagues. Its 12-team H2H points. Keep 17 + 8 farm. Its sort of a unique scoring format based loosely off of the old smallworld scoring from back in the day. Main difference in this league is that there have been tweaks to strive for top F = top D = top G (8 D in the top 20 skaters last year, for example).

Spoiler:

G/A: 1
+/-: 0.32
Hits: 0.08
PIM: 0.08
Shots: 0.015
PPP: 0.4
SHP: 0.6
Blk Sh: 0.2
Dman Pts: 0.15
W: 2
SO: 3
OTL: 0.8
Svs: 0.08
GA: -0.64

I'm 7-5 in third place. Up on the 2nd place team (8-4) so far this week. My team is better than my record because I started 0-3, so, 7-2 (looking like 8-2) in the past 9.

Start 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 6D, 2G

C: Koivu, Zetterberg (LW), Hanzal, Duchene*, Couturier*, Granlund*
LW: Marleau, Clowe, Raymond, Kane*, Stalberg*, Wilson (C)*, Greening (C)*, Paajarvi*
RW: Perry, Franzen, Wheeler, Bourque (LW)
D: Seabrook, Kronwall, Giordano (IR), EJ, Corvo, Foster, Carlson*, Spurgeon*, Faulk*, Wilson (Ryan)*
G: Luongo, Ward, Mason, Neuvirth*

We can cycle our farm players into our starting line up to the extent that we have room for them. That has been one of my strenghts -- having a productive farm where almost all of my players are in the NHL and producing at least modestly. Problem is, Kane, Duchene, and Neuvirth should all graduate very soon (Duchene 1 more game, and Kane/Neuvy in a couple months). My roster will be much more locked at that point, with only a couple open minor spots to cycle guys in and out to maximize games played.

All that in mind, I've been offered Liles + Jagr for Marleau.
Liles is the 14th ranked D in FP/g (1.38)
Jagr is the 13th ranked RW (1.28)
Marleau is the 18th LW (1.20)

I would drop Foster to make room for Liles. This likely does help me this year, which is my main goal right now. But I can't help but look forward some too. Its unclear whether I'd have room to keep either. I would likely keep 3/5 of Wheeler, Hanzal, S. Mason, Jagr, Liles. Marleau would clearly be kept in that group.

So, long way of saying -- Jagr + Liles for Marleau?

[mikey287]

Tough one, Jagr + Liles is win now. Now, depth. Marleau probably doesn't have Jagr's upside even at Jagr's advanced age. And Liles bolsters a defense that features Kurtis Foster (why isn't Carlson up over him? Unless I misunderstand).

You might have to forgive the minor future implications of this (I mean, you do get to keep Liles out of that) in exchange for two players that might end being better this year. You can make it up because you have good depth, as you say, later down the line. I'd probably be tempted to do that now due to my uneasiness with Marleau...I wouldn't be too terribly upset if I missed a chance to keep Patrick Marleau, to be honest...