Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:48 am

Also bhaw, you realize homosexuals sometimes use that word as a sense of empowerment, right?
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:52 am

doublem wrote:Tone down your self-righteous for a bit here. I never said those people were all my friends. In school, in sports that word is tossed around non-stop.


You're still the one rationalizing it, not me. I'm not disagreeing that it's probably said regularly in the NHL. And I agree this is all about timing and not about the fact he said it. But I'm also not going to downplay it as "Oh that crazy Simmonds was just trying to tell Avery he's a jerk. He didn't mean it the way we are all taking it." Simmonds said it with intention and he is stupid for saying it. The "f" word has very negative and specific connotation to it, just as throwing a banana on the ice at a black player does. Saying it to someone who isn't gay doesn't remove those connotations.

That word was tossed around a lot when I was about 12 and no one knew what it meant.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:53 am

doublem wrote:Also bhaw, you realize homosexuals sometimes use that word as a sense of empowerment, right?


Yup, and black people use the n word as a sense of empowerment. You let that fly around all the time too?

EDIT: And are you seriously implying that Simmonds was now empowering Avery? :lol: What a freaking joke. Good argument doublem. Well played.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:05 am

bhaw wrote:
doublem wrote:Also bhaw, you realize homosexuals sometimes use that word as a sense of empowerment, right?


Yup, and black people use the n word as a sense of empowerment. You let that fly around all the time too?

EDIT: And are you seriously implying that Simmonds was now empowering Avery? :lol: What a freaking joke. Good argument doublem. Well played.


Because the word(s) clearly have no objective meaning. Black people use it all the time, gay people use the f word, are they bigots? Clearly, they aren't. I have heard the n word used by black people in my life and the f word by gay people, I don't say, hey, you bigot stop that. It's the racist people that you have to worry about. Throwing a banana at someone is clearly a racist statement, at times using the n/f word, is not.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:11 am

doublem wrote:
bhaw wrote:
doublem wrote:Also bhaw, you realize homosexuals sometimes use that word as a sense of empowerment, right?


Yup, and black people use the n word as a sense of empowerment. You let that fly around all the time too?

EDIT: And are you seriously implying that Simmonds was now empowering Avery? :lol: What a freaking joke. Good argument doublem. Well played.


Because the word(s) clearly have no objective meaning. Black people use it all the time, gay people use the f word, are they bigots? Clearly, they aren't. I have heard the n word used by black people in my life and the f word by gay people, I don't say, hey, you bigot stop that. It's the racist people that you have to worry about. Throwing a banana at someone is clearly a racist statement, at times using the n/f word, is not.


:lol:

As I said, rationalizing it makes it no less ignorant. The only way your above scenario works is if Avery and Simmonds are both gay and know that each other are gay.

And edit to add again: you clearly have no belief in what you say.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:18 am

bhaw wrote:
I'm rarely PC. But this is beyond ignorant. I'll say it again a third time if you want to rationalize it again, so feel free. Again, given that this board is 99% white males who are into sports where this is acceptable, I'm not surprised with your comments. Doesn't make them any less ignorant.

EDIT to add: people say it so often? Where and who do you hang out with?


well my friends are mostly marines, and we have filthy mouths. the ones who arent have filthy mouths. i can guarantee you that they arent 99% white male sports fans. if you want to set some kind of precedent for the "F" word being used ONLY in terms of calling someone gay, i'd love to hear it. if you think thats the only way its used, you may want to take a stroll to your mirror before you call anyone ignorant.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:19 am

Why do you keep saying things that you think that I believe? When did I say I agree with Simmonds? Its not a smart thing to do, but these are hockey players, I'm not expecting wonderful behavior. Not that it makes it right. I'm just saying that it's really not the same as banana tossing.

And edit to add again: you clearly have no belief in what you say.


What?
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:21 am

Kaizer wrote:
bhaw wrote:
I'm rarely PC. But this is beyond ignorant. I'll say it again a third time if you want to rationalize it again, so feel free. Again, given that this board is 99% white males who are into sports where this is acceptable, I'm not surprised with your comments. Doesn't make them any less ignorant.

EDIT to add: people say it so often? Where and who do you hang out with?


well my friends are mostly marines, and we have filthy mouths. the ones who arent have filthy mouths. i can guarantee you that they arent 99% white male sports fans. if you want to set some kind of precedent for the "F" word being used ONLY in terms of calling someone gay, i'd love to hear it. if you think thats the only way its used, you may want to take a stroll to your mirror before you call anyone ignorant.


I've conceded several times in this thread that it's used all over the place. That doesn't diminish it's ignorance. They are not mutually exclusive.

Perhaps there's a reason you keep typing it as "the f word" just like doublem.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:26 am

bhaw wrote:
Kaizer wrote:
bhaw wrote:
I'm rarely PC. But this is beyond ignorant. I'll say it again a third time if you want to rationalize it again, so feel free. Again, given that this board is 99% white males who are into sports where this is acceptable, I'm not surprised with your comments. Doesn't make them any less ignorant.

EDIT to add: people say it so often? Where and who do you hang out with?


well my friends are mostly marines, and we have filthy mouths. the ones who arent have filthy mouths. i can guarantee you that they arent 99% white male sports fans. if you want to set some kind of precedent for the "F" word being used ONLY in terms of calling someone gay, i'd love to hear it. if you think thats the only way its used, you may want to take a stroll to your mirror before you call anyone ignorant.


I've conceded several times in this thread that it's used all over the place. That doesn't diminish it's ignorance. They are not mutually exclusive.

Perhaps there's a reason you keep typing it as "the f word" just like doublem.


yeah language filter. the word is mainstream. wayne simmonds isnt breaking down a new wall of what you call ignorance here. he just had it thrown to the media by a d-bag. i'd put my left nut on the line that the penguins players say it all the time during games and nobody on the ice cares. certainly not as much as someone disrupting the game with racist foreign objects.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:29 am

doublem wrote:Why do you keep saying things that you think that I believe? When did I say I agree with Simmonds? Its not a smart thing to do, but these are hockey players, I'm not expecting wonderful behavior. Not that it makes it right. I'm just saying that it's really not the same as banana tossing.


Your argument makes no sense. I don't know what there is to agree with Simmonds about. You've contradicted what you said in the last page of posting. So it's not right, but he's not saying anything inflammatory? You said that all he means is that Avery is a jerk, didn't you?

Banana tossing is less common, yes. It's clearly racial. But as you said, calling someone the f word isn't right either. And it's not right because of the connotation it carries in this specific situation. Simmonds used the word precisely as he intended it and as it was taken by everyone. There's a reason he's saying he can't remember what he said (read the article... he says he can't recall everything he said). As you said, it's not OK. And thank you for agreeing with me.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:32 am

Kaizer wrote:yeah language filter. the word is mainstream. wayne simmonds isnt breaking down a new wall of what you call ignorance here. he just had it thrown to the media by a d-bag. i'd put my left nut on the line that the penguins players say it all the time during games and nobody on the ice cares. certainly not as much as someone disrupting the game with racist foreign objects.


None of what you are saying here is mutually exclusive with what I'm saying. It seems you just wanted to get involved to justify that you say it all the time.
Last edited by bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:33 am

This is the real problem I have with bhaw point. There are times when people are really racist, a banana toss probably one of the best examples I have seen in hockey in my lifetime. It really waters down who and what is racist when someone gets worked up about hockey players using the F-word, during a scrap.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:35 am

because of the connotation it carries in this specific situation.

it only carries that connotation because thats what avery wanted it to mean. i highly doubt most players would make a big deal out of it or even care.
None of what you are saying is mutually exclusive with what I'm saying. It seems you just wanted to get involved to justify that you say it all the time.


i dont need to justify anything. throwing this up like it invalidates what happened with the banana thing is just feeble, and i'm explaining why.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:37 am

Who said it invalidates the banana thing? I'm pretty sure most people here said that was clearly racist and a terrible thing to do minus the few who tried to say the guy just threw a banana for the sake of throwing a banana. I certainly never said it invalidates the banana throwing.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:38 am

bhaw wrote:Who said it invalidates the banana thing? I'm pretty sure most people here said that was clearly racist and a terrible thing to do minus the few who tried to say the guy just threw a banana for the sake of throwing a banana. I certainly never said it invalidates the banana throwing.


ok bad choice of words, i mean that this isnt nearly as bad.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:41 am

doublem wrote:This is the real problem I have with bhaw point. There are times when people are really racist, a banana toss probably one of the best examples I have seen in hockey in my lifetime. It really waters down who and what is racist when someone gets worked up about hockey players using the F-word, during a scrap.


???

Again, people are worked up due to the timing (I pointed that out before you chimed in). Simmonds was the object of sympathy for a few days b/c of the banana tossing (which I think most everyone agrees was pretty terrible). He got caught being under the microscope. I missed the point where that makes it ok to call someone the f word? And I certainly don't see how this use of the f word meant jerk or how he was empowering Avery.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:43 am

Kaizer wrote:
bhaw wrote:Who said it invalidates the banana thing? I'm pretty sure most people here said that was clearly racist and a terrible thing to do minus the few who tried to say the guy just threw a banana for the sake of throwing a banana. I certainly never said it invalidates the banana throwing.


ok bad choice of words, i mean that this isnt nearly as bad.


Again, who said this was worse or close? I said that calling someone the f word is not right due to the connotations. I figured my previous post that said this was all about timing and Simmonds was an idiot for engaging Avery made it pretty clear. You and doublem went off about how it's acceptable and totally cool to use that term because "everybody does it!"
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:45 am

bhaw wrote:
Kaizer wrote:
bhaw wrote:Who said it invalidates the banana thing? I'm pretty sure most people here said that was clearly racist and a terrible thing to do minus the few who tried to say the guy just threw a banana for the sake of throwing a banana. I certainly never said it invalidates the banana throwing.


ok bad choice of words, i mean that this isnt nearly as bad.


Again, who said this was worse or close? I said that calling someone the f word is not right due to the connotations. I figured my previous post that said this was all about timing and Simmonds was an idiot for engaging Avery made it pretty clear. You and doublem went off about how it's acceptable and totally cool to use that term because "everybody does it!"


yeah, and that is what i'm saying. hes getting a bunch of **** because he just had some kind of sympathy rush? please. any other time and nobody would give a crap.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:46 am

Ah, this is ridiculous. It's not that hard to understand, calling someone the F word could mean many different things, wuss, ahole, etc. To certain people it means different things. Two hockey players calling it to each other during a scarp isn't the same thing as someone running up to a homosexual and yelling F in their face. Throwing a banana from the stands directly at the feet of a black player when he is the only black player on the ice, clearly has a certain meaning behind. If you don't understand the difference I can't help you.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:50 am

Kaizer wrote:yeah, and that is what i'm saying. hes getting a bunch of **** because he just had some kind of sympathy rush? please. any other time and nobody would give a crap.


I disagree. He's getting a bunch of **** for being stupid and putting himself in the situation to get a bunch of ****. It's like watching your co-worker get fired for watching porn on his work computer then going out and using your computer to download illegal videos and wondering why you're trouble when it's obvious employees are under the microscope after the first incident. Don't be stupid.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Kaizer on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:51 am

bhaw wrote:
Kaizer wrote:yeah, and that is what i'm saying. hes getting a bunch of **** because he just had some kind of sympathy rush? please. any other time and nobody would give a crap.


I disagree. He's getting a bunch of **** for being stupid and putting himself in the situation to get a bunch of ****. It's like watching your co-worker get fired for watching porn on his work computer then going out and using your computer to download illegal videos and wondering why you're trouble when it's obvious employees are under the microscope after the first incident. Don't be stupid.


well if they caught everyone who said that and made this kind of a big deal about it, there would be 50 new articles about it a week.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:52 am

doublem wrote:Ah, this is ridiculous. It's not that hard to understand, calling someone the F word could mean many different things, wuss, ahole, etc. To certain people it means different things. Two hockey players calling it to each other during a scarp isn't the same thing as someone running up to a homosexual and yelling F in their face. Throwing a banana from the stands directly at the feet of a black player when he is the only black player on the ice, clearly has a certain meaning behind. If you don't understand the difference I can't help you.


your rationalizing is ridiculous. If you actually believe that Simmonds used it this way, you are delusional.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:56 am

I'm fine with that. Serious question? Have you ever played sports?
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Rylan on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:46 am

lol wow, are we really doing this?

The banana was thrown by a spectator outside the realm of the game.

Calling someone a name in the heat of a game, really, its part of the game. Complaining about that is hysterical. Oh no I got called a name, I will now be scarred for life.

And actually in language if everybody does it, the word will change its meaning.

I really want to post the south park episode where they discuss the word in question.

And lol at Avery, I would bet any amount of money that Sean Avery has used the word at least once before during a game in his hockey career.
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Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Gaucho on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:24 am

bhaw wrote:The "f" word has very negative and specific connotation to it, just as throwing a banana on the ice at a black player does. Saying it to someone who isn't gay doesn't remove those connotations.



Exactly. :thumb:
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