What happened to Ovechkin?

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Mongoose87 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:28 pm

You make some decent points, but I don't think being 26 is playing a part in making him slow down, considering some players are just breaking into the league at his age.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby columbia on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:45 pm

Actually giving a **** would take him far, but I don't think that's the case here.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,649
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby tjand72 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:21 pm

Many people forget that steroid use is against federal law. If there is any indication of steroid use from any player, then they should be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This isn't some 80 year-old man trying to regain some semblance of normalcy in his every day life. This is a professional athlete openly flouting the law in order to supersede other athletes in his profession. Not only should the NHL ban him (or whomever), but that person should be arrested.

It astounds me that there is a discussion in NHR that some should or shouldn't be punished by a league for breaking PED rules/laws. This isn't a matter of bookkeeping. It's a matter of legality.

If you want to argue that steroids should be legal, then that's fine, but that's certainly not the issue. Steroids are illegal - period. At this time, they're a controlled substance that can only be prescribed by a physician with a, for a lack of a better term, "really, really good reason".

This isn't a condemnation of Ovechkin - he hasn't been implicated in jack squat. I would hope, however, that if he, or anyone else were to be implicated in steroid use, that he/they would be banned from the sport forever.

IT"S ILLEGAL.
tjand72
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,828
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: 9674 Jeopardy Lane

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby André on Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:14 am

Sweden's biggest tabloid (which also has the biggest sports magazine and online site) had a webcast with some of their hockey columnist talking Ovechkin. They ran a movie showing the camera push, the driving of the golf cart under that garage door as well as showing alot of pictures of him partying (including footage from the Rock the Red video which was kind of unfair), the fat **** scene, and so on.

They talked about steroid suspicion, his long contract, attitude, how the league has adapted to his style. The whole thing was extremely anti-Ovy. This season is probably the first team Swedish media is negative towards him and they're not playing nice. One of them even said he's all about power and intensity, and that he doesn't have good stick handling to fall back to when the "power style" fails :face:

Overall good to see, of course =) But the stick handling thing just cracked me up. Yeah, his wrists aren't very good at all...
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,306
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby steelhammer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:57 am

André wrote:Sweden's biggest tabloid (which also has the biggest sports magazine and online site) had a webcast with some of their hockey columnist talking Ovechkin. They ran a movie showing the camera push, the driving of the golf cart under that garage door as well as showing alot of pictures of him partying (including footage from the Rock the Red video which was kind of unfair), the fat **** scene, and so on.

They talked about steroid suspicion, his long contract, attitude, how the league has adapted to his style. The whole thing was extremely anti-Ovy.
This season is probably the first team Swedish media is negative towards him and they're not playing nice. One of them even said he's all about power and intensity, and that he doesn't have good stick handling to fall back to when the "power style" fails :face:

Overall good to see, of course =) But the stick handling thing just cracked me up. Yeah, his wrists aren't very good at all...


For God's sakes, don't tease us like that. Post the video!
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby pensfan1989 on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:32 am

steelhammer wrote:
André wrote:Sweden's biggest tabloid (which also has the biggest sports magazine and online site) had a webcast with some of their hockey columnist talking Ovechkin. They ran a movie showing the camera push, the driving of the golf cart under that garage door as well as showing alot of pictures of him partying (including footage from the Rock the Red video which was kind of unfair), the fat **** scene, and so on.

They talked about steroid suspicion, his long contract, attitude, how the league has adapted to his style. The whole thing was extremely anti-Ovy.
This season is probably the first team Swedish media is negative towards him and they're not playing nice. One of them even said he's all about power and intensity, and that he doesn't have good stick handling to fall back to when the "power style" fails :face:

Overall good to see, of course =) But the stick handling thing just cracked me up. Yeah, his wrists aren't very good at all...


For God's sakes, don't tease us like that. Post the video!

\
pensfan1989
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,165
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: Ponakronkoski

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby brwi on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:56 am

André wrote:They talked about steroid suspicion, his long contract, attitude, how the league has adapted to his style. The whole thing was extremely anti-Ovy. This season is probably the first team Swedish media is negative towards him and they're not playing nice. One of them even said he's all about power and intensity, and that he doesn't have good stick handling to fall back to when the "power style" fails :face:

Overall good to see, of course =) But the stick handling thing just cracked me up. Yeah, his wrists aren't very good at all...


I completely agree with their analysis: AO isn't a stickhandling whiz and creates space with power and burst, not from handling the puck. Wrists have nothing to do with it. Jeff Carter has a great wrist shot and he isn't much at stickhandling either. Same with Semin and plenty of others. Having a great wrist shot doesn't equal great stickhandling.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,129
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby André on Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:27 pm

brwi wrote:
André wrote:They talked about steroid suspicion, his long contract, attitude, how the league has adapted to his style. The whole thing was extremely anti-Ovy. This season is probably the first team Swedish media is negative towards him and they're not playing nice. One of them even said he's all about power and intensity, and that he doesn't have good stick handling to fall back to when the "power style" fails :face:

Overall good to see, of course =) But the stick handling thing just cracked me up. Yeah, his wrists aren't very good at all...


I completely agree with their analysis: AO isn't a stickhandling whiz and creates space with power and burst, not from handling the puck. Wrists have nothing to do with it. Jeff Carter has a great wrist shot and he isn't much at stickhandling either. Same with Semin and plenty of others. Having a great wrist shot doesn't equal great stickhandling.


I'm not ranking it above his speed, power etc but to say his stickhandling isn't good is just not true.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,306
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby penmyst on Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Stickhandling is more affected by dexterity than power. So it's totally conceivable a guy could have a great wrist shot (powerful forearms) and mediocre stickhandling (dexterity).


Desiato wrote:...Let's just assume that all players are/were on PEDs. Back to Ovechkin:

He's now listed as 230+ pounds. When he came into the league, I believe he was around 210 and when he was scoring most of his goals he was 220 or under. While he moves very quickly for a player his size, he is understandably slower at 26 years of age and 230 lbs than he was at 22 and 215 lbs.

I think that his decline in production can be attributed to weight gain, age, playing more within a system, and failing to develop as a player; in addition to external factors such as greater athleticism in the NHL. No need to speculate further, really.

If he is on PEDs, maybe the problem isn't being off them; but instead becoming too large as as result of them.


1. Being age 26 is not on the downhill side of performance. In fact, most players are stronger and better at age 26 than age 22. Mid to late twenties are the prime years for male athletes. Usually the plateau hits at about 30, then the dropoff starts in physical ability.

2. Listing weights can be deceiving. 200 lbs with lots of muscle vs. 200 lbs with lots of flab are very different.

Going from 220 lbs with muscle, up to 230 lbs having dropped 15 lbs of muscle and adding 25 lbs of fat.... would certainly account for being a different player. And this is totally within the realm of possibility when dealing with PED users that quit the juice. The whole point of juicing is that less work = more muscle. Drop the juice, and that "less work" leads to "less muscle". Along with eating habits remaining the same and you also get "more fat".

3. There is not "greater athleticism" in the NHL compared to just 3 or 4 years ago. Maybe compared to 30 years ago. But not 3 years ago. It cannot explain Ovechkin's precipitous fall from lethal superstar to also-ran.
penmyst
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,369
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:30 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby André on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Here's the link. Skip to 08:26.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/sport/ishockey/afterice/article14047896.ab?start=506

They start of that section by saying "a few years back he was a hockey king and now he's a hockey bum (or "hobo" actually but I don't think that word is used in the same way in English)" :D
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,306
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:04 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=t ... ing_121211

Not saying Ovechkin is using, BUT maybe that's why he's not testing positive.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,662
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby npv708 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:18 pm

Image
npv708
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,658
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:11 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Draftnik on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 pm

MRandall25 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-brown_hardball_braun_conte_testosterone_testing_121211

Not saying Ovechkin is using, BUT maybe that's why he's not testing positive.


That article talks about MLB tests. Ovie has passed numerous WADA tests which are the most stringent applied in sports. WADA is the gold standard for doping testing.

Then if it is so incredibly easy to beat even a WADA test (not what Conte is alleging) when why would Ovie stop doping?
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Tomas on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:04 am

Boats N' Hoes, Part 2:

Tomas
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,248
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:21 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:02 am

Haha ridiculous
SolidSnake
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,127
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: Winners don't use drugs.- William S. Sessions.

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby columbia on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am

Draftnik wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-brown_hardball_braun_conte_testosterone_testing_121211

Not saying Ovechkin is using, BUT maybe that's why he's not testing positive.


That article talks about MLB tests. Ovie has passed numerous WADA tests which are the most stringent applied in sports. WADA is the gold standard for doping testing.

Then if it is so incredibly easy to beat even a WADA test (not what Conte is alleging) when why would Ovie stop doping?


Maybe he changed his mind and decided not to.

I don't know or care if he ever juiced, but your persistent counter argument on this doesn't make any sense:
Someone having the ability to beat a test, but not doing so means they were *never* cheating the test.

What?
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,649
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby bhaw on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:50 am

Tied for 43rd in scoring. If he can put up 2 points next game, he can tie PA Parenteau for 32nd. Life is looking good for AO :lol:
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 26,996
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby crokin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:09 pm

1. Off the juice
2. Russian (got his big contract)
3. Don Cherry said his physical style never would last, worn out.
crokin
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 651
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: K-Mart, 400 Oak Street, Cincinnati, OH

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby profpolisci on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:32 pm

I thought he was on his way back to being the OV I became used to seeing.
profpolisci
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,254
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:21 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Wrangler98 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:51 pm

He scored his first in like 6 games. Against another bottom dwelling team, what a surprise.
Wrangler98
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,373
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:00 pm
Location: Nobama 2012

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby bh on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:26 pm

brwi wrote:I completely agree with their analysis: AO isn't a stickhandling whiz and creates space with power and burst, not from handling the puck. Wrists have nothing to do with it. Jeff Carter has a great wrist shot and he isn't much at stickhandling either. Same with Semin and plenty of others. Having a great wrist shot doesn't equal great stickhandling.

What?!? Semin has great stickhandling abilities. OV isn't terrible at it but with him as you point out his speed really helps him out. To me he lost a step and that is what has killed his greatness the most.
bh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,491
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:48 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby bh on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:34 pm

Desiato wrote:He's now listed as 230+ pounds. When he came into the league, I believe he was around 210 and when he was scoring most of his goals he was 220 or under. While he moves very quickly for a player his size, he is understandably slower at 26 years of age and 230 lbs than he was at 22 and 215 lbs.

I think that his decline in production can be attributed to weight gain, age, playing more within a system, and failing to develop as a player; in addition to external factors such as greater athleticism in the NHL. No need to speculate further, really.

:thumb: I think that the biggest issue is that he's lost a step, that quick burst he had. That's killing his game. I think you're right that it is due to his weight.
bh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,491
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:48 am

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Stoosh on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:34 pm

I've seen him play maybe 6 or 7 times this year, and it seems to be a combination of factors.

1. He is not adapting his game. He's become relatively predictable and teams have figured out how to defend against him. I've noticed that when he has the puck in the offensive zone, good teams put a defenseman on him who can move with him and stay between him and the goaltender. I've also noticed teams pressuring him more often when he's outside the zone and carrying the puck, knowing that if they can force him into a mistake and a turnover, he won't come back on the play. This has happened with almost laughable frequency against some good teams, and he absolutely refused to adjust to it.

2. I think there's something to be said for his weight gain. As someone mentioned above, he's gone from 210 to 230-240 lbs. over the course of his NHL career and it could've slowed him down if he's not handling his conditioning the proper way. Look at the differences between he and Malkin right now. I'm not naive enough to think Ovechkin is completely blowing off his off-seasons, nor do I believe Malkin was living in the gym all summer. But if what you do during the season is a large-scale reflection of what you put into the offseason, it could speak to Ovechkin's conditioning being well off what it used to be.

Perfect player to illustrate what I mean - Kris Letang. Letang was by all accounts a maniac this summer when it came to training to improve his agility and quickness. For a player who was already a great skater to begin with, you can see the improvements in his skating this year over last. Ovechkin, by contrast, looks slower and more "clumsy", if that's the right way to describe it.

3. He exhibits a fraction of the enthusiasm he used to have on the ice. Go back and watch clips of Ovechkin from 2007-08 and 2008-09. There's a jump and an energy to his play in those clips that's just not there. He looks bored or indifferent, or apathetic, maybe. Who knows what it is? Maybe it's the burden of increased expectations that have come since he and Crosby shook hands in the 2009 Eastern Conf. Semifinals. Maybe as the euphoria of the Caps' initial rise to prominence 2007-08 and 2008-09 has faded, so has his enthusiasm (tying in with expectations, perhaps). Or maybe he's just the largest piece of what many outside observers have always thought that team to be - a group of individual elite talents that never figured out how to play as a team, work together and complement each other.
Stoosh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,461
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:19 am
Location: Aliquippa, PA

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby Rylan on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:57 pm

Number 3 bh is what bothers me most about OV. He just doesn't seem to have the same enjoyment of playing the game. Hate to say it, but a major injury where he had to sit might help him. I can't recall him ever being injured and he still seems to be the only player that has the weight of the Capitals. Backstrom and company are not true household names outside of fans that take a major interest in the sport.
Rylan
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,995
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Dead and Without Love

Re: What happened to Ovechkin?

Postby pittsports87 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:00 pm

Rylan wrote:Number 3 bh is what bothers me most about OV. He just doesn't seem to have the same enjoyment of playing the game. Hate to say it, but a major injury where he had to sit might help him. I can't recall him ever being injured and he still seems to be the only player that has the weight of the Capitals. Backstrom and company are not true household names outside of fans that take a major interest in the sport.

A major injury definitely helped Malkin get his head on straight.
pittsports87
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,418
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: College

PreviousNext

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

e-mail