Sheriff Shanny

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Sheriff Shanny

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:46 pm

I was def. one if his biggest supporters when he took over and was willing to give him a good amount of rope in changing the culture. But it is now evident that it's, "This is the new boss same as the old boss." in his practices. Instead of reviewing all headshots that occur it's a pick and choose culture. Not to mention nothing is uniform. First time offender, second, fourth, fine, suspension, talking to. What the hell man. I guess I should just accept that things will never change in the NHL. How hard would it be to lay down this thought process.

First violation of any kind : Fine and official warning from the NHL that any further actions of that type will result in a suspension.
Second violation : Suspension of at least 1 game but no ceiling of a limit and a fine
Third violation: Auto 10+ games and a fine
Fourth violation: auto 20+ games with a hearing to be reinstated after the suspension is up
Fifth violation: You've lost your NHL privileges

It would also help if the max fine a player could receive wasn't $2500. I'd be all for a % scale based on salary.

Say a player is making $1mil

First violation: Fine that = 2% of your salary, in this case $20,000
Second: 5% of your salary, in this case $50,000
Third and above: 10% of your salary in this case, $100,000

That way the league isn't destroying the lively hood of small time grinders, and is making a statement with the bigger hits against the bigger salaries. This would hit the players in their wallets in a big way and help to deter the activity. Say Sid had a first violation that would be over $170,000. While a player of his salary in a third and above would be $870,000. Talk about a deterrent.
Last edited by Pavel Bure on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:48 pm

I think there's too much logic in the above post for anyone at the NHL Headquarters to take serious.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:56 pm

the degree of punishment is secondary to actually figuring out what is punishment-worthy.

the play on cooke last night was literally about 5 times worse than what either letang or neal did to earn league discipline. i don't think it would be right for anyone to face strict punishment simply out of a public relations decision.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:19 pm

I think you nailed it shmenguin. Are there head shots that aren't really head shots? Why does one get reviewed while another one discarded? It's totally random.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:23 pm

He is worse than Colin Campbell. Far worse. Its harder to understand what he'll see questionable hits and penalize them than how Campbell interpreted the rules.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:45 pm

Pitt87 wrote:He is worse than Colin Campbell. Far worse. Its harder to understand what he'll see questionable hits and penalize them than how Campbell interpreted the rules.


i think they're exactly the same. they both act out of image concerns first - fairness last.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:03 pm

What I don't get is that they have living proof in Cooke that long suspensions can change a player. He has, what, 8 min over 24 games? But since they crushed him with suspensions, they haven't even come close to hitting anyone with anything meaningful save for maybe Wisniewski. If insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, what do you call doing something once and getting the results you want but never doing it again?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby penmyst on Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:54 pm

^^^
And furthermore on Cooke, his suspensions haven't been an example for any other players in the league because it has been so blatantly obvious that the league had it in for Cooke. Meanwhile, they haven't handed anything remotely similar in over-reaction to another player, as they did with Cooke.

So other players just look at it as a personal jihad against Cooke, and know it won't apply to them. And it hasn't.

It's exactly like the previous administration.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:04 pm

penmyst wrote:So other players just look at it as a personal jihad against Cooke, and know it won't apply to them. And it hasn't.


it's a pure fact at this point. i've been surprised at how little things have changed this year with head shots. i guess cooke's gift-from-god elbow was the monster that got lynched, and that's that. all debts are settled and all problems are solved.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:40 am

How many games will Tootoo get? 5?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:00 am

vid? Didn't see it?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby dman66 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:07 am

I love the idea Pavel Bure. The only thing I would add is that they should have a committee of some type determine if the act is suspension worthy. Something like 5-9 people and everyone has a vote. Have a former NHL player or two, former NHL executives, and throw in a couple lawyers who have nothing to do with hockey. They decide if the action is worthy of a suspension and if it is, it goes to your sliding scale. I'd also place limits on how long someone could be on the committee, something like 3-4 years.

Tootoo should get at least 5, and I would be in favor of more. Of course, he should just be able to call Shanahan and tell him it was an accident. It will be OK after that.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:16 am

Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

Shanny needs to be removed from power. He clearly wasn't ready to handle this job and the result is having rules with more grey area than they have ever had before because they are assessing what a player was "thinking" based on their review. The explanation for Carlson's hit was the perfect example where they talk about how his focus was clearly on moving the puck forward, not on hitting Cooke. It is beyond absurd and an extremely dangerous use of the power he has when he starts attributing what he believes players were thinking into the equation. That's going about 5 steps beyond "intent," which was hard enough to assess as it was.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:52 pm

bhaw wrote:Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

:face: Are you for real? The only way the two hits are similar is that they both involved a goalie.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:02 pm

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
bhaw wrote:Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

:face: Are you for real? The only way the two hits are similar is that they both involved a goalie.


It's more sarcasm, fyi. Goalies shouldn't be hit, but according to Shanny, it's totally cool.

If you look around the league, goalies are getting run a lot this year with no consequences.

EDIT: this is more comparable to Foligno running over MAF multiple times. The reason it's highlighted is because it's Miller. Doesn't change that Shanny's time in office has been a farce so far.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:34 pm

Physical_Graffiti wrote:
bhaw wrote:Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

:face: Are you for real? The only way the two hits are similar is that they both involved a goalie.


Aren't you two saying essentially the same thing?

Tootoo could have avoided Miller, Ehrhoff pushed him right into Miller. No way Tootoo could have avoided that hit on Miller. To me, the real issue here is more that Ehrhoff proceeded to jump on the resulting pile and throw punches. No reason for him to have jumped in there.



Stars defenseman Mark Fistric flattened Islanders forward Nino Niederreiter with an open ice hit in the neutral zone. he completely left his feet and destroyed him.



It'll be interesting to see if Shanny addresses that one.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:20 pm

bhaw wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
bhaw wrote:Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

:face: Are you for real? The only way the two hits are similar is that they both involved a goalie.


It's more sarcasm, fyi. Goalies shouldn't be hit, but according to Shanny, it's totally cool.

If you look around the league, goalies are getting run a lot this year with no consequences.

EDIT: this is more comparable to Foligno running over MAF multiple times. The reason it's highlighted is because it's Miller. Doesn't change that Shanny's time in office has been a farce so far.

Ah, my bad (thought the sarcasm was aimed at me, not Shanny).
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:32 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Physical_Graffiti wrote:
bhaw wrote:Tootoo had more reason to hit Miller than Lucic. Consistency in rulings would say that Tootoo gets nothing because he was pushed into the goalie and he jumped to try to avoid him. Shanny will show his true colors here though and slap him with a suspension right after he let Lucic get away with it.

:face: Are you for real? The only way the two hits are similar is that they both involved a goalie.


Aren't you two saying essentially the same thing?

Tootoo could have avoided Miller, Ehrhoff pushed him right into Miller. No way Tootoo could have avoided that hit on Miller. To me, the real issue here is more that Ehrhoff proceeded to jump on the resulting pile and throw punches. No reason for him to have jumped in there.


I actually believe that this is a case of what bhaw said Lucic did to Miller (along the lines of "I'm not going to beat him to the puck score , so I might as well run him").

He has full control of the puck but he doesn't look down when it gets knocked off his stick?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby llipgh2 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:33 pm

Tootoo will get a fine/penalty because he is Tootoo. He made far more effort to avoid Miller than Lucic did, but will be punished nonetheless.

Oh, and the league's explanation for no punishment for Carlson? It was a "Get out of the way" hit. Seriously. That's what they called it. It was in one Seth from Emptynetter's tweets yesterday.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Godric on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:01 pm

Poor Tootoo, I feel bad for him
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby the wicked child on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:06 pm

The lack of consistency is maddening. In that regard, nothing has changed from the previous regime.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:28 am

I think miller is being a little girl. Hockey is a rough sport, **** happens. Tootoo clearly tried to avoid him there, its absurd he got a game misconduct.

There is a 2 minute penalty in the rulebook for goaltender interference. When did that become insufficient
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:41 am

lol Good for Buffalo for finally stop being jokes and taking care of the situation right away :roll: . I don't think the Ehroff "push" on Tootoo was as heavy as it seemed, but I don't see how that's a game misconduct either.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby penmyst on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:44 am

Mr. Colby wrote:I think miller is being a little girl. Hockey is a rough sport, **** happens. Tootoo clearly tried to avoid him there, its absurd he got a game misconduct.

There is a 2 minute penalty in the rulebook for goaltender interference. When did that become insufficient


Exactly. Refs have tools at their disposal to deal with these sorts of things on the spot. At times, it seems as though nobody with any power in the league or reffing the game has a clue what their job is.

The Foligno and Crosby crap a few games back could have been entirely avoided had the refs simply warned Foligno the first time he got "involved" in Fleury's crease, and then handed him minor penalties for subsequent "accidents" there.

Instead, they incompetently don't know what to do. Which leads to Crosby feeling he's got to go all Batman vigilante and right the wrongs of Gotham.

This nonsense extends beyond the incompetent referees. It goes all the way up to Shanahan, and Campbell before him.

I mean, the vast majority of this stuff is NOT HARD to adjudicate. Most people with any sense, and no attachment to either team/player... can call most of these suspensions.

Why are we having Shanahan play Karnak? Telling me what players are thinking? How the hell can he know? How the hell does it matter what they are thinking? Does it change the devastating head shot damage? Does it change a concussion? Does it change injury to a knee?

I think intention should have some weight on the suspension. But it shouldn't be the majority factor. The law should be the law. Until you create trustworthiness of just that fact, you will continue to see these problems persist in the league.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:00 am

The picking and choosing needs to stop. For Tootoo to get a game misconduct for what he did (didn't do) is just crap. No chance that gets called if it was against any other goalie but Ryan Miller on his 1st game back. Nor should it be.

And yeah, it does start at the top. Grinders are always going to be the scapegoat under the current regime.
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