Sheriff Shanny

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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby steelershark on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:59 pm

love playoff hockey, not the stuff you see in January. Why, because they physically try to intimidate the other team. it is crazy hockey is trying to bring women fans to watch games but TapOut is spreading like wildfire, and of course there is not any physicality in that sport?!?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:03 pm

steelershark wrote:love playoff hockey, not the stuff you see in January. Why, because they physically try to intimidate the other team. it is crazy hockey is trying to bring women fans to watch games but TapOut is spreading like wildfire, and of course there is not any physicality in that sport?!?


I have no idea what point you are trying to make here... are you comparing hockey to MMA? Are you suggesting hockey should become MMA for the sake of popularity?

I love playoff hockey too because it's physical... notice how you didn't say you love it because guys are trying to cause brain trauma?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:04 pm

bhaw, I don't think we are that far off in terms of where we stand on the issue. I am not a proponent of leaving one's feet to deliver a hit. That should be a penalty or deserving of league action (suspension). You missed my point of enforcing the already imposed rules. That includes not leaving your feet to deliver a hit as well as using intent to injure more often.

I don't see where you and I even differ on this bhaw. Your example is one that is against the rules. You continue on using intent to injure as an example. Something I explicitly state needs to be used more. And finally, you agree with the fact the league has mishandled this. Something I also stated.

I am against banning all headshots because it isn't necessary. If the rules already in place are enforced, then that itself will clean the league up. You confuse refusal to change the rulebook with being "ok." I am for harsher penalties to already illegal plays. I am against creating something that will change the game drastically.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Fast B on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:11 pm

Rylan wrote:The Steckel hit was incidental contact considering Crosby skated into Steckel.


Wow, we're still going with this?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby steelershark on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:14 pm

No violence is in hockey, that is the game. Stop trying to make it civilized. If you do not think that is cool, go watch baseball. Oh wait they throw at heads, and they go into 2nd base spikes up!
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:14 pm

Fast B wrote:
Rylan wrote:The Steckel hit was incidental contact considering Crosby skated into Steckel.


Wow, we're still going with this?


No proof to the contrary. This is the easiest explanation considering Steckel has never been that type of player.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby steelershark on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:26 pm

my bad, forgot the comma, violence is in hockey!!!!!
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:39 pm

bhaw wrote:
steelershark wrote:I am with Rylan, stop trying to take toughness out of sports! Sure illegal hits need to be punished, but good contact is different. Lindros was a great player that had a heavy tendency to watch the puck, which hurt his career. Did Kasper really try too end his career, NO WAY, but had an oppurtunity to smack him and nailed him LEGALLY. Gordie Howe has brain injuries but so did a college professor I worked for, life is not fair. Boohoo,


Comments like this are why idiots still run the league.

"Stop trying to take toughness out of sports." Seriously? How about you go find an intelligent argument?

:lol: :roll:
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:57 pm

huh? crosby skated into steckel? that's a thing? good lord.

kronwall's hit on voracek should be illegal. that's where you differ from bhaw, rylan.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:37 pm

Kromwall did nothing wrong in that specific hit. He stayed on his feet, plus that hit lead to a goal I believe. Even Voracek said that is was a hit that shouldn't leave the game. I will allow the recipient of said hit words carry more weight than that of the common fan.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Chefpatrick871 on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:09 pm

Rylan wrote:Kromwall did nothing wrong in that specific hit. He stayed on his feet, plus that hit lead to a goal I believe. Even Voracek said that is was a hit that shouldn't leave the game. I will allow the recipient of said hit words carry more weight than that of the common fan.

I agree. What do people want, a stop sign on the top of the helmet so when a player put his head down he's off limits?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:07 pm

Rylan wrote:Kromwall did nothing wrong in that specific hit. He stayed on his feet, plus that hit lead to a goal I believe. Even Voracek said that is was a hit that shouldn't leave the game. I will allow the recipient of said hit words carry more weight than that of the common fan.


Hitting the guy is fine. Trying to kill the guy isn't. Kronwall, whether you want to recognize it or not, is intent on paralyzing players and effing up their life. He's someone that should be on the receiving end of Cooke like suspensions. But, again, it's cool now to try and hospitalize a guy who has his head down because he deserves it.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:22 pm

shmenguin wrote:huh? crosby skated into steckel? that's a thing? good lord.

kronwall's hit on voracek should be illegal. that's where you differ from bhaw, rylan.


In 2 years, people will be talking about how Crosby viciously assaulted Steckle with his head.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:31 pm

bhaw wrote:
Rylan wrote:Kromwall did nothing wrong in that specific hit. He stayed on his feet, plus that hit lead to a goal I believe. Even Voracek said that is was a hit that shouldn't leave the game. I will allow the recipient of said hit words carry more weight than that of the common fan.


Hitting the guy is fine. Trying to kill the guy isn't. Kronwall, whether you want to recognize it or not, is intent on paralyzing players and effing up their life. He's someone that should be on the receiving end of Cooke like suspensions. But, again, it's cool now to try and hospitalize a guy who has his head down because he deserves it.


I hold my argument that I will listen to the receiver of the hit over that of a fan. I agree Kromwall is a dangerous player, that hit is not one to use in your argument.

bhaw wrote:
shmenguin wrote:huh? crosby skated into steckel? that's a thing? good lord.

kronwall's hit on voracek should be illegal. that's where you differ from bhaw, rylan.


In 2 years, people will be talking about how Crosby viciously assaulted Steckle with his head.


:face:
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:57 pm

once upon a time, players didn't want to wear helmets either. and most of them don't want to wear visors now.

in short, players suck at protecting themselves. they also are neither the customer nor the owner of the business.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:13 pm

Rylan wrote:
bhaw wrote:
Rylan wrote:Kromwall did nothing wrong in that specific hit. He stayed on his feet, plus that hit lead to a goal I believe. Even Voracek said that is was a hit that shouldn't leave the game. I will allow the recipient of said hit words carry more weight than that of the common fan.


Hitting the guy is fine. Trying to kill the guy isn't. Kronwall, whether you want to recognize it or not, is intent on paralyzing players and effing up their life. He's someone that should be on the receiving end of Cooke like suspensions. But, again, it's cool now to try and hospitalize a guy who has his head down because he deserves it.


I hold my argument that I will listen to the receiver of the hit over that of a fan. I agree Kromwall is a dangerous player, that hit is not one to use in your argument.


I don't even know why you would take that comment seriously regardless of what he said. If his opinion is actually that it was a cheap shot and should be out of the game, do you really think an NHL player is going to say, "Yeah, my head was down, but that hit was totally reckless. I don't think he should have hit me like that and eased up,"?

I mean, come on now... I'm not going to pretend I know what he actually thinks, but to think if he did have the opposite opinion that he would actually state it? No player is going to do that to themselves.

Also what shmenguin said.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:26 pm

But of all the Kromwall hits to choose, you chose that one which was not reckless and was in fact an effective and clean hit. If you are going to pick a Kromwall hit, pick one that is actually completely illegal, and not just illegal in your heads.

There is nothing outside of enforcing the rulebook you can do unless you want to drastically alter how the NHL game is played. That is all there is to it. if you want to change the landscape of the game then by all means. Because that is what you guys are clamoring for.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:36 pm

Rylan wrote:But of all the Kromwall hits to choose, you chose that one which was not reckless and was in fact an effective and clean hit. If you are going to pick a Kromwall hit, pick one that is actually completely illegal, and not just illegal in your heads.

There is nothing outside of enforcing the rulebook you can do unless you want to drastically alter how the NHL game is played. That is all there is to it. if you want to change the landscape of the game then by all means. Because that is what you guys are clamoring for.


illegal in whose heads? no one said a penalty should have been called at the time. everyone realizes it was legal.

changing the landscape...ruining hockey...fundamentally changing how the game is played...etc.

no one's really saying how specifically it would be such a drastic change, it's just more fun to deal with the abstract, i guess. orpik, for instance, showed the other night that some guys already adjust their bodies to avoid head contact. he lowered his body big time, to make sure he hit whatshisname from the predators square in the chest, even though the filthy animal had his head down and yes he deserved to die and i hope he burns in hell and so forth.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:42 pm

Rylan wrote:But of all the Kromwall hits to choose, you chose that one which was not reckless and was in fact an effective and clean hit. If you are going to pick a Kromwall hit, pick one that is actually completely illegal, and not just illegal in your heads.

There is nothing outside of enforcing the rulebook you can do unless you want to drastically alter how the NHL game is played. That is all there is to it. if you want to change the landscape of the game then by all means. Because that is what you guys are clamoring for.


Of course all his other stuff should be illegal as well. That's the point. There was no difference when you look at his intent. His intention was to turn Voracek into a vegetable if at all possible (then run and hide). The fact that fans say that kind of intent is acceptable and actually encouraged because Voracek had his head down is the problem.

Yes, I would say that shmenguin and I are asking the game to be drastically altered (if that's what you want to call it) from what the NHL has allowed it to be altered to in the last 5-7 years. It should not be legal for players to go after each other's heads then brush it off as unavoidable. 95% of it IS avoidable, but because the fans WANT guys accelerating UP into hits because it causes more damage, it has become "unavoidable" with "form" body checks.

5 years ago THIS was borderline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfof6bpl42M
(I've posted this before)

That same year, people wanted Neil out of the league forever for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R8maaJPeFE

Now that draws 2-3 games ($2500 fine if you've been a good boy)

The notion that the way things are right now are how they always have been is flat out wrong.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:45 pm

:shock:

shmenguin scares me :lol:

We are not that far off in our philosophies. If you want the game to be more like college and international that is fine. I can understand that. But avoiding the head is not always possible when making a hockey play check. The fact remains if the receiver lowers his should at any time during which the hitter begins to make a hit, there will be contact to the head. If the receiver's head is before his body (moving in a forward motion) the chance of getting hit in the head is increased.

Am I advocating making sure they are destroyed? NO

That would be intent to injure.

I am advocating allowing the hockey hits that are not malicious in nature to be left alone. There will be injuries in a collision sport, and there will occasionally be a concussion. That is what happens in a contact/collision sport. There are accidents. I am not in favor of punishing accidents. If it is obvious there was targeting (an flying wing without slowing down) then suspend the hell out of him.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:55 pm

Rylan wrote::shock:

shmenguin scares me :lol:


samuel l jackson from "a time to kill" shares the sentiment around here about guys who skate with their heads down.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:04 pm

bhaw wrote:
Rylan wrote:But of all the Kromwall hits to choose, you chose that one which was not reckless and was in fact an effective and clean hit. If you are going to pick a Kromwall hit, pick one that is actually completely illegal, and not just illegal in your heads.

There is nothing outside of enforcing the rulebook you can do unless you want to drastically alter how the NHL game is played. That is all there is to it. if you want to change the landscape of the game then by all means. Because that is what you guys are clamoring for.


Of course all his other stuff should be illegal as well. That's the point. There was no difference when you look at his intent. His intention was to turn Voracek into a vegetable if at all possible (then run and hide). The fact that fans say that kind of intent is acceptable and actually encouraged because Voracek had his head down is the problem.

Yes, I would say that shmenguin and I are asking the game to be drastically altered (if that's what you want to call it) from what the NHL has allowed it to be altered to in the last 5-7 years. It should not be legal for players to go after each other's heads then brush it off as unavoidable. 95% of it IS avoidable, but because the fans WANT guys accelerating UP into hits because it causes more damage, it has become "unavoidable" with "form" body checks.

5 years ago THIS was borderline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfof6bpl42M
(I've posted this before)

That same year, people wanted Neil out of the league forever for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R8maaJPeFE

Now that draws 2-3 games ($2500 fine if you've been a good boy)

The notion that the way things are right now are how they always have been is flat out wrong.


Again I think you misinterpret me and that is possibly my fault. I agree the Neil hit on Drury is a less devastating version of the hit Cooke put on Savard. There was no need for that hit and a suspension was warranted.

The hit on Avery is still borderline IMO. But I am just asking for enforcement of the rulebook. Instead of nuking the problem, let's try enforcing the current rules. If that fails and you still see a game getting increasingly dangerous then it would be time to consider altering the game. But until then, nuking the problem is not a good idea for the game.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:23 pm

And since this is the Shanny thread, can I throw out there that the Kronwall comments after the Voracek hit smell fishy? He said that he realized his hits in the past were high and he had to change his game (along those lines). So someone warned him but he never got a fine or suspension for them. This absolutely stinks like the NHL giving the Bruins leeway on hits when Campbell was in charge and his son was in Boston. The guy (shanahan) has no semblance of integrity.

Apparently he also said that suspensions WILL be treated differently in the playoffs because "each 7 game series is like a mini-season." If that's the logic, Cooke got suspended for 10 games plus a season at the end of last year.

Basically he's saying "guys won't be suspended unless it's a terrible hit, and if it is that terrible, I will give them a game."
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:25 pm

I wonder if people argued like this when the forward pass was introduced to hockey. It seems that it's not so much about the game could be made safer as "change is bad"
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:26 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:I wonder if people argued like this when the forward pass was introduced to hockey. It seems that it's not so much about the game could be made safer as "change is bad"


Was the forward pass ever illegal in hockey? Lol.
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