Sheriff Shanny

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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:28 pm

Yes there was a time you couldn't pass forward to advance the puck
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:29 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:I wonder if people argued like this when the forward pass was introduced to hockey. It seems that it's not so much about the game could be made safer as "change is bad"


But I do think it is this exactly. The new NHL was going to be ballet on ice. The trapazoid was going to make Brodeur useless and be a huge hindrance to goal tenders (have you seen a trapazoid penalty in the last 2 years? I can't recall one). The instigator rule would destroy the game (it just destroyed the careers of the guys who's sole purpose was fighting). etc etc. You can find instances where those changes hurt the game in isolated instances but none of us here hate hockey now.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:30 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Yes there was a time you couldn't pass forward to advance the puck


I didn't know that.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:32 pm

bhaw wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Yes there was a time you couldn't pass forward to advance the puck


I didn't know that.


Yea it was illegal for the longest time. You could only advance the puck through stickhandling and drop passes. The game was also more linear than it is today.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:36 pm

http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/hockey/nh ... rules.html

List of major rule changes in NHL history. Enjoy :)
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:53 pm

Goalies used to have to serve their own penalties. Awesome.

Of note... the discipline system hasn't changed in 90 years, hahaha.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:55 pm

bhaw wrote:Goalies used to have to serve their own penalties. Awesome.

Of note... the discipline system hasn't changed in 90 years, hahaha.


I knew many of those, but the goalie one where another player had to tend the net while the goalie served his penalty would be funny to watch now.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:23 am

A key sticking point in this ridiculous head-hunting is how many players lead with their shoulders high leaning into guys upper torso and head areas.

Watch most hits by Orpik. He doesn't do that. He is usually firmly planted, balanced on his legs, and delivering the hit with his hips leading the way.

Watch these head-hunters. If they don't make contact, they'll fall flat on their faces they are so leaned forward with the shoulder out looking for a target.

When punks like Ovechkin and Richards do it, people get up in arms. But it's become SOP around the league. I've explained why before, but to give the short version: it's a lower risk/ high reward type of hit to make compared to keeping your lowerbody balanced and delivering power from the hips. It can have explosive results, with almost zero physical blowback.

The fact that it's super dangerous isn't an issue, since the league won't do anything to stop it. So players keep pushing the line. And why not? Worst you can see for a blatant elbow assault on a head (such as Keith) is 5 games. Worst. Most likely is less than 2, if any at all. It never brings a 5 minute major. So if you can make it appear less blatant than Keith's assault, you are quite likely to get away with it. Maybe a 2 minute penalty, but the guy you just incapacitated might be gone for the game. Win.

I'll say again: It doesn't have to be this way. Witness: Matt Cooke.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:50 am

Rylan wrote:
bhaw wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Yes there was a time you couldn't pass forward to advance the puck


I didn't know that.


Yea it was illegal for the longest time. You could only advance the puck through stickhandling and drop passes. The game was also more linear than it is today.

The "Joe Malone Era". :scared:
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:10 am

bhaw wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I wonder if people argued like this when the forward pass was introduced to hockey. It seems that it's not so much about the game could be made safer as "change is bad"


But I do think it is this exactly. The new NHL was going to be ballet on ice. The trapazoid was going to make Brodeur useless and be a huge hindrance to goal tenders (have you seen a trapazoid penalty in the last 2 years? I can't recall one). The instigator rule would destroy the game (it just destroyed the careers of the guys who's sole purpose was fighting). etc etc. You can find instances where those changes hurt the game in isolated instances but none of us here hate hockey now.


Just playing a bit of Devils advocate here, but...

I don't think that's it's totally a coincidence that our current problems with head injuries came after the instigator rules were put in place.

Just say'n.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:07 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
bhaw wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I wonder if people argued like this when the forward pass was introduced to hockey. It seems that it's not so much about the game could be made safer as "change is bad"


But I do think it is this exactly. The new NHL was going to be ballet on ice. The trapazoid was going to make Brodeur useless and be a huge hindrance to goal tenders (have you seen a trapazoid penalty in the last 2 years? I can't recall one). The instigator rule would destroy the game (it just destroyed the careers of the guys who's sole purpose was fighting). etc etc. You can find instances where those changes hurt the game in isolated instances but none of us here hate hockey now.


Just playing a bit of Devils advocate here, but...

I don't think that's it's totally a coincidence that our current problems with head injuries came after the instigator rules were put in place.

Just say'n.


But, at the same time, we know 100000x more about concussions now than we knew then. How many guys had concussions and were simply given Tylenol and told to shake it off and get back out there?

There were still concussions before the instigator rule, just like there were still concussions before the redline. We didn't know enough about them then.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby brwi on Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:41 am

penmyst wrote:A key sticking point in this ridiculous head-hunting is how many players lead with their shoulders high leaning into guys upper torso and head areas.

Watch most hits by Orpik. He doesn't do that. He is usually firmly planted, balanced on his legs, and delivering the hit with his hips leading the way.

Watch these head-hunters. If they don't make contact, they'll fall flat on their faces they are so leaned forward with the shoulder out looking for a target.

When punks like Ovechkin and Richards do it, people get up in arms. But it's become SOP around the league. I've explained why before, but to give the short version: it's a lower risk/ high reward type of hit to make compared to keeping your lowerbody balanced and delivering power from the hips. It can have explosive results, with almost zero physical blowback.

The fact that it's super dangerous isn't an issue, since the league won't do anything to stop it. So players keep pushing the line. And why not? Worst you can see for a blatant elbow assault on a head (such as Keith) is 5 games. Worst. Most likely is less than 2, if any at all. It never brings a 5 minute major. So if you can make it appear less blatant than Keith's assault, you are quite likely to get away with it. Maybe a 2 minute penalty, but the guy you just incapacitated might be gone for the game. Win.

I'll say again: It doesn't have to be this way. Witness: Matt Cooke.


It's not ridiculous to lead with your shoulder to check an opponent and it's taught from the time kids can skate. You are getting ultra-hysterical over some head shots, especially your heart attack about Sarich that was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen posted here.

Hockey is a contact sport and checking is legal and will always be legal. Driving your shoulder into the man's upper torso is always going to be a legal hit. Sometimes players are going to end up hit in the head intentionally or unintentionally because it's a contact sport. It's also a sport that when you skate with your head down(again, taught from Day 1 to never do) that you may get demolished. Hockey is not a bump-and-nudge-and-excuse-me sport.

You keep trotting out this tired argument about Orpik hip checks. Hip checks and leading with your hip are taught primarily to defensemen and not to forwards because you generally are skating backwards or stationary to properly deliver a hip check. It was also considered by players to be an extremely "dirty" hit years ago and few players would attempt them due to the risk of injury and the immediate retaliation from opposing players. Orpik this year is a bad example because he's been mediocre at best and his hitting means all of what when he's barely been average most nights? Leading with your hip is also not in any way a "low risk, high reward hit" for that matter. The best "check" in all of hockey is stick checking/poke checking because it has the least amount of risk.

What you are advocating the NHL be would really turn-off all the players and fans that make the sport exist. If we all wanted Ice Capades, we would go see that instead of a hockey game.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Streaks House on Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:53 pm

Don't know if this was brought up in the thread yet, but on Hot Stove on HNIC last night, Eric Francis pretty much says that Shanny WOULD dish out longer suspensions, but there is significant pressure from a group of NHL GMs to not do such.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Rylan on Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:00 pm

I could honestly see that Streaks.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:12 pm

brwi wrote:Leading with your hip is also not in any way a "low risk, high reward hit" for that matter.


I called the high-hits using the shoulder the "low risk, high reward".

Hip checks are high risk, high reward. Higher risk in that it requires skill, timing, and balance to do it right. Due to the force being generated at the waist area, which isn't as agile as the upper body can be.

And the only reason hip checks are considered "dirty" is because most players, and most coaches (as you admit) don't teach them, opting instead for the high garbage. For the reasons I point out about risk/reward. So most wouldn't know a good hip check if it buried them into the second row.

It's like a dysfunction.

The only legitimate complaint about old-school hip checks revolved around guys like Kasparaitis because he'd spread his legs so far apart his balls were on the ice as he landed his hips into some guys knee ligaments.

Furthering the evidence of dysfunction, is the assumption then by the same crowd that if you remove head-hunting the game will turn into Ice Capades.

-----

Streaks House wrote:Don't know if this was brought up in the thread yet, but on Hot Stove on HNIC last night, Eric Francis pretty much says that Shanny WOULD dish out longer suspensions, but there is significant pressure from a group of NHL GMs to not do such.


Maybe.

Sounds like a copout though.

Who signs his paychecks? The league or the GMs?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby columbia on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:23 am

Sedin has a concussion.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:44 pm

columbia wrote:Sedin has a concussion.


Of course he does. In the end, 5 games for messing up a rival's best player indefinitely? Chicago should be throwing a party for Keith.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:43 pm

bhaw wrote:
columbia wrote:Sedin has a concussion.


Of course he does. In the end, 5 games for messing up a rival's best player indefinitely? Chicago should be throwing a party for Keith.


Steckel got nothing :pop:
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby netwolf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:42 pm

Streaks House wrote:Don't know if this was brought up in the thread yet, but on Hot Stove on HNIC last night, Eric Francis pretty much says that Shanny WOULD dish out longer suspensions, but there is significant pressure from a group of NHL GMs to not do such.


Here are the comments to see/hear for yourselves. Pretty much confirms what I've suspected for a while now. The NHL is it's own worst enemy.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynightinc ... 3435&tab=1
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:48 pm



Kyle Quincey only got a game for a jumping elbow to Tomas Kopecky, who was reaching for a puck.

Before you say "He should've kept his head up", Quincey left his feet. Regardless of where Kopecky's head was at, it's a dangerous play, and probably should've gotten more than 1 game.
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:31 am

Yeah, that needs to be more than a game. Super blatant. But hey... it happened to Florida, so who cares? Right?
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:56 am

bhaw wrote:Yeah, that needs to be more than a game. Super blatant. But hey... it happened to Florida, so who cares? Right?


And it was a guy on the Red Wings throwing the hit...

#redwingconspiracy
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:07 am

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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby Mr. Colby on Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:21 am

LOL they tried to work in "56-game NHL career" as much as possible
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Re: Sheriff Shanny

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:00 pm

Anything happen to Richards after last night? Or Rinaldo for trying to decapitate TK?
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