Top 100 NHL Players

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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby columbia on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:32 pm

Gaucho wrote:Bobby Fisher maybe.


There are some amazing hilights of Fischer vs Spassky on hockeyfights.com
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby brwi on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:32 pm

Kraftster wrote:These are so hard to do.
Ones that stand out to me more than any others.

Rinne at 93 -- has he ever watched the Preds?
Backstrom at 94 -- worst on the list, are you kidding, Bucci? (Behind the likes of Mike Fisher, Tomas Plekanec, Joe Pavelski)


Considering how high he has Fisher and how low he has Rinne, I'd guess he watches maybe one or two Predators' games a year from start to finish.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Staggy on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:18 pm

I'm guessing his reasoning (although I disagree with him) is that Ovechkin is the only reason Backstrom puts up so many points. And he probably weighed last year's playoffs very heavily and Backstrom was a complete no-show.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Daniel87 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:46 pm

I agree with his Malkin assessment.

One guy, all-out, for 60 seconds, to score or set up, with you strapped to an electric chair watching and needing your team to score to save your life? You take Geno.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby bh on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:37 pm

Daniel87 wrote:I agree with his Malkin assessment.

One guy, all-out, for 60 seconds, to score or set up, with you strapped to an electric chair watching and needing your team to score to save your life? You take Geno.

haha, yep. that's about right.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Desiato on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:39 pm

I've observed that Jordan Staal gets more respect in the hockey community as a whole than he does on this forum.

While I don't entirely agree with this list, I like it because it recognizes intangibles, hockey sense and overall ability.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby André on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:48 pm

My top five at the moment:

1: Sid
2: Geno (challenges Sid if current level is kept for as long as it was 07-09)
3: Giroux
4: Datsyuk

After those I find it really tight and hard to decide.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Kraftster on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:22 pm

I'd put Dats at #3 by a wide margin over Giroux. I think Sid is on his own level, Malkin could get there if he keeps up his current form. Datsyuk is on a tier above the rest, below Sid(/Geno).
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:40 pm

I wouldn't put Giroux in the top 10 yet.

He simply hasn't shown he can maintain this for a long time.

I'd put guys like Hossa, Lidstrom, Chara, guys who have been to the final multiple times and have won Cups, but also are great performers in the regular season.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:59 pm

It's strange to me how some people view skill players and what's acceptable and what isn't.

Like, this board is very reticent about Giroux and Stamkos who are two super elite players in the game and really haven't shown much else besides elite-ness...and they need to "prove it for a longer time" and this and that...but it's a board that defends someone like Dustin Byfuglien (some) and Tim Thomas (most) despite Thomas only having 2 elite seasons since being drafted 18 years ago, in between them losing his job to a rookie that put up better numbers and is slowly maybe losing his job to a rookie again who might just break his "records" that he set a year ago.

It's strange to me that people can't see Giroux as a superstar or John Tavares as at least a star, but see a goalie who is very clearly a product of the team he is on as a potential HHOFer...

And I mean it sincerely not conscendingly...it's just strange how people view things. I mean, look at these lists...Ovechkin is no where to be found...1st team all-star at LW for 5 straight seasons out of the gate, 2nd team all-star last year stating that he's been either the best or 2nd best winger in the game for the last 6 years...but now he slips for just ~50 games, even ~80 games and that's enough to make him a distant memory. Giroux and Stamkos have proved it for longer than Ovechkin has "stopped" proving it, so to speak...but look at these lists, it's like he doesn't exist.

Just food for thought.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby columbia on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:06 pm

Some red meat for mikey287....

I NOW Consider Tim Thomas A Hall Of Famer
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/p ... _of_famer/

I think the writer is a bit crazy, btw.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Rylan on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:14 pm

Lol that writer is an idiot.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:39 pm

columbia wrote:Some red meat for mikey287....

I NOW Consider Tim Thomas A Hall Of Famer
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/p ... _of_famer/

I think the writer is a bit crazy, btw.


Wow, I don't have words for that really. See, here's the thing I don't get (ignoring that he thinks Alfredsson is a HHOFer, which I don't really subscribe to - what was he a 2nd team all-star once or something? - no need to go there), here's the thing I don't get it. If you don't really know the history of the game or the HHOF and all that surrounds it, how are you making these calls? What is your criteria?

It's like the pepole that think someone like Mark Messier is the best player of all-time, #1, numero uno. Is there any context to that? Or is he just your favorite? I just don't understand where people just make these calls from...do they just assume that this is what a HHOF career looks like 2 or 3 good seasons while being out-performed by your backup at times in the same time span? I don't want to get into the whole Thomas thing again here...if you need to see it, go back and search it out...but I found it interesting that the writer noted, "what would have happened if he had been identified as an NHL goalie sooner?" - well, probably we never hear of him. He was identified by Quebec, Edmonton and one other team that escapes me and they all thought he wasn't good enough. If they let him go ahead and he blows it, do you think gets invited back? Cechmanek wasn't invited back and they both have many similarities...

I don't know, I used to absolutely lose it on this and put up 10 pags of ranting text...but now I generally just stare in utter confusion...I guess I'm the idiot (I see a lot of people nodding intently in front of their computer screens right now)...I should change my name to Clueless Joe Jackson because I have no idea what's going around me at any time...

I'll start drawing up the papers for the Tuukka Rask for HHOF party...because if the Bruins stay intact and Rask takes this team over, you think a .938 save pct. is the best season ever, wait til you see what Rask does...
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Rylan on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:43 pm

lol dude I hate when people compare Hasek to Thomas. Just makes me :face:
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:48 pm

If I were going to put Giroux on that list for playing like this for this amount of time, he'd be below Stamkos.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:05 pm

Rylan wrote:lol dude I hate when people compare Hasek to Thomas. Just makes me :face:


If you compare Hasek to Thomas, at least one of the following must be true...

1) You've never seen Hasek play
2) You've never seen Thomas play
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Gaucho on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:04 pm

Well, they both wear masks and have these huge pads around their legs.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby bh on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:19 pm

mikey287 wrote:It's strange to me that people can't see Giroux as a superstar or John Tavares as at least a star, but see a goalie who is very clearly a product of the team he is on as a potential HHOFer...
I don't know about Tavares because I don't care much for watching NYI games, but every-time i watch Giroux play he makes a WTF Holy Crap type move. He is #3 right now or at least a definite top 5. People just don't want to admit it because he is a Flyer.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:31 am

Gaucho wrote:Well, they both wear masks and have these huge pads around their legs.

And their teams both come from cities starting with a B.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby André on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:30 am

mikey287:

Very much agree with you on this (though I think Thomas is great). Fan perceptive is funny. Some look at a selected few factors only and use those to praise their favourite. I mean I have seriously seen someone think Domi was best in the world as he fought and scored goals. Some present it as fact not opinion that Stamkos is better than Crosby, and so on.

Some look at achivements so far, and too often team achievements. That is interesting (especially when summarizing the success of a career) of course but in my opinion not very relevant in a best individual right now discussion. That is about level of on ice play. Capacity, factor in a game, to what extent a player is leading/contributing to his team, and so on.

To judge that you have to watch and read. I think 95% (myself included) of those debating players don't watch them all on a regular basis (it's simply not possible). Just watching a few games now and then, reading what those in or near the game think of players and watching tons of recaps does help though. Nothing substitutes watching full games of course, but what I see of Giroux compared to others in those 4 min recaps on NHL.com does give me basis for an educated guess.

I think he masters tons of the game's aspects (offensively he does it all). He dominates, is a huge on ice presence that just takes control. He leads his line and his team. I definitely pick him ahead of Stamkos if the NHL halted today and went for a fantasy draft with me as GM of a team.

Disregarding health and age this is how I'd prioritize for my first pick:

1: Crosby
2: Malkin (but ask me again in six months)
3: Giroux
4: Datsyuk
5: Ovechkin (but I'd want a long interview with him before deciding)

And yes, no D-man. I think the comparison between positions is hard. And even though I guess I'm a bit more than a casual fan I'm not as comfortable picking D-men. It's easier to point out which forwards are doing best.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby André on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:35 am

bh wrote:
mikey287 wrote:It's strange to me that people can't see Giroux as a superstar or John Tavares as at least a star, but see a goalie who is very clearly a product of the team he is on as a potential HHOFer...
I don't know about Tavares because I don't care much for watching NYI games, but every-time i watch Giroux play he makes a WTF Holy Crap type move. He is #3 right now or at least a definite top 5. People just don't want to admit it because he is a Flyer.


Yeah he's a stud. Don't know as much about Tavares but from I've gathered he's really doing well this season.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:57 pm

Hey, now, Tie Domi was everything you could want in a grinder.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby pittsports87 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:02 pm

Tavares is a really good player, I've been impressed with him every time I've watched him. Definitely a special player.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:10 pm

Gaucho wrote:Toews won a Conn Smythe, that's why he's rated so high.


Keith should've won that year though, Toews did nothing in the Finals.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:01 pm

i guess you can't argue with stamkos' production, but i still don't understand how he puts up the numbers that he does. i've only seen him play against the pens, and a little bit in his playoff run last year...but he just doesn't seem like a guy that can create offense out of thin air like sid, geno, (formerly) ovechkin, giroux, etc.

is it just that his execution is better than everyone else's when he's in scoring positions?
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