Top 100 NHL Players

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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby pittsports87 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:05 pm

shmenguin wrote:i guess you can't argue with stamkos' production, but i still don't understand how he puts up the numbers that he does. i've only seen him play against the pens, and a little bit in his playoff run last year...but he just doesn't seem like a guy that can create offense out of thin air like sid, geno, (formerly) ovechkin, giroux, etc.

is it just that his execution is better than everyone else's when he's in scoring positions?

He plays with Martin St. Louis. That's why he gets production.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:12 pm

pittsports87 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:i guess you can't argue with stamkos' production, but i still don't understand how he puts up the numbers that he does. i've only seen him play against the pens, and a little bit in his playoff run last year...but he just doesn't seem like a guy that can create offense out of thin air like sid, geno, (formerly) ovechkin, giroux, etc.

is it just that his execution is better than everyone else's when he's in scoring positions?

He plays with Martin St. Louis. That's why he gets production.


i always said that, but st louis hasn't had that many assists on his goals this year. looking at his goal highlights this year...dude must lead the universe in 2-1 goals
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Staggy on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:31 pm

Stamkos's ~20 percent shooting rate the last couple seasons has definitely helped. I haven't seen him play much except against the Pens but from the highlights I'd say he puts himself in good position a lot and has exceptional finishing abilities along with an excellent shot.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:44 pm

Stamkos is just a terrific offensive player...there's really no two ways about it, MSL or no MSL...I never got the hold up about him here, he's a skilled sniper with terrific offensive acumen. It's bizarro world that people think he's only a product of MSL...he's really taken his playmaking skills to a new level this year, he's carrying it up the ice and making things happen, he's the whole deal right now. He's a star night in and night out.

Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:58 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.


I don't know...seeing j-Bo 6 times a year was enough for most people here to correctly downplay his sensational play, no? Maybe it was just coincidence.

Stamkos hasn't been much of a playmaker in his games against the pens. He's executed exceptionally when put in scoring positions, but he hasn't been the critical component to that offense. If that's not the real stamkos or whatever, fine. But that's what we see, so it makes sense why people here feel that way.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:49 am

mikey287 wrote:Stamkos is just a terrific offensive player...there's really no two ways about it, MSL or no MSL...I never got the hold up about him here, he's a skilled sniper with terrific offensive acumen. It's bizarro world that people think he's only a product of MSL...he's really taken his playmaking skills to a new level this year, he's carrying it up the ice and making things happen, he's the whole deal right now. He's a star night in and night out.

Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.

Stammer is my fav player
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby André on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:24 am

mikey287: Not saying you said that, but do you pick Stamkos over Giroux?
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby newarenanow on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:51 am

8. Alex Ovechkin: He has turned out to be a comet. Shooting less and assisting less, which says he's not moving like he used to. Was once a human can of Red Bull. Fifth straight year his goal-per-game average has decreased. Tied for 38th in scoring this year. Maybe the offseason Happy Meal runs need to end. Playoff beast: 50 points in 37 games. Had 43 even-strength goals in '07-08. He has 37 in his past 126 games. Let's hope the train returns soon.


I thought that was funny.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:57 pm

shmenguin wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.


I don't know...seeing j-Bo 6 times a year was enough for most people here to correctly downplay his sensational play, no? Maybe it was just coincidence.


What are you talking about? Jay Bouwmeester isn't a superstar forward, nor was he drafted to be one...

shmenguin wrote:Stamkos hasn't been much of a playmaker in his games against the pens. He's executed exceptionally when put in scoring positions, but he hasn't been the critical component to that offense. If that's not the real stamkos or whatever, fine. But that's what we see, so it makes sense why people here feel that way.


I'd just start watching him more I guess if you feel that way...you're really missing out on a terrific player in this league.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:53 pm

mikey287 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.


I don't know...seeing j-Bo 6 times a year was enough for most people here to correctly downplay his sensational play, no? Maybe it was just coincidence.


What are you talking about? Jay Bouwmeester isn't a superstar forward, nor was he drafted to be one...


But he was drafted to be a superstar D-man.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:31 pm

André wrote:mikey287: Not saying you said that, but do you pick Stamkos over Giroux?


Good question...it's close. It depends what you value more. Personally, Giroux but by the slightest of margins.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby pittsports87 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:33 pm

mikey287 wrote:
André wrote:mikey287: Not saying you said that, but do you pick Stamkos over Giroux?


Good question...it's close. It depends what you value more. Personally, Giroux but by the slightest of margins.

Giroux by a mile!
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:37 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Tampa's not even a rival (re: Giroux not being a top 10 player in the game), no one here even watches Tampa Bay games probably...not that that's a requisite of being on the board, but it should be before downplaying the sensational play of Steven Stamkos.


I don't know...seeing j-Bo 6 times a year was enough for most people here to correctly downplay his sensational play, no? Maybe it was just coincidence.


What are you talking about? Jay Bouwmeester isn't a superstar forward, nor was he drafted to be one...


But he was drafted to be a superstar D-man.


He was supposed to be elite, but he wasn't really considered a flashy, puck-rushing d-man ala Coffey or Green...which is traditionally what a superstar d-man is...not saying that he's met expectations necessarily, but he's very underrated by people that can't judge defensive d-men...
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:11 pm

I feel like if I was to do this I'd have to lock myself in my room with my computer and a case. Props for Bucci for making a semi-respectable list.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:17 pm

pittsports87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
André wrote:mikey287: Not saying you said that, but do you pick Stamkos over Giroux?


Good question...it's close. It depends what you value more. Personally, Giroux but by the slightest of margins.

Giroux by a mile!


Least shocking post of the thread.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:39 pm

Am I the only one not feeling all the love for Datsyuk?

Id have Sid, Geno, Stamkos, Toews, Giroux all above Dats right now and maybe a few others. If considering the future I'd take Tavares, Letang, Schneider, Hall.. maybe I'm getting off topic. But yeah, I dont feel Datsuk is a top 5 player and maybe not even in my top 10.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Froggy on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:58 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:Am I the only one not feeling all the love for Datsyuk?

Id have Sid, Geno, Stamkos, Toews, Giroux all above Dats right now and maybe a few others. If considering the future I'd take Tavares, Letang, Schneider, Hall.. maybe I'm getting off topic. But yeah, I dont feel Datsuk is a top 5 player and maybe not even in my top 10.

i agree. he's got a lot of skill, and is great defensively. but i don't think he has elite level production.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Kraftster on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:08 pm

Froggy wrote:
Fire0nice228 wrote:Am I the only one not feeling all the love for Datsyuk?

Id have Sid, Geno, Stamkos, Toews, Giroux all above Dats right now and maybe a few others. If considering the future I'd take Tavares, Letang, Schneider, Hall.. maybe I'm getting off topic. But yeah, I dont feel Datsuk is a top 5 player and maybe not even in my top 10.

i agree. he's got a lot of skill, and is great defensively. but i don't think he has elite level production.


05/06: 87(75) | +26
06/07: 87(79) | +36
07/08: 97 | +41
08/09: 97 | +34
09/10: 70 | +17
10/11: 59(56) | +11
11/12: 53(50) | +20

If that's not consistent high level production, I don't know what is. That's all while being one of the best defensive forwards in the league for that same 7 year period on probably the best team during the same stretch.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Froggy on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:19 pm

i didn't say he wasn't producing at a HIGH level... i said he wasn't producing at an ELITE level. he's a point per game player, which is really really really good. just not top 5 good.

plus, his career high is only 32 goals. i think he needs a more complete offensive game to be considered a top 5 player
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Pavel Bure on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Froggy wrote:i didn't say he wasn't producing at a HIGH level... i said he wasn't producing at an ELITE level. he's a point per game player, which is really really really good. just not top 5 good.

plus, his career high is only 32 goals. i think he needs a more complete offensive game to be considered a top 5 player

Forsberg argument.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Froggy on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:29 pm

forsberg ppg=1.25
datsyuk ppg=.988

forsberg had 2 100+ pt seasons
datsyuk had 0

forsberg has a hart trophy
datsyuk does not

forsberg has an art ross trophy
datsyuk does not

forsberg has a better career +/-, too
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Pavel Bure on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 pm

Froggy wrote:forsberg ppg=1.25
datsyuk ppg=.988

forsberg had 2 100+ pt seasons
datsyuk had 0

forsberg has a hart trophy
datsyuk does not

forsberg has an art ross trophy
datsyuk does not

forsberg has a better career +/-, too

Forsberg also never scored more than 30 goals in a season and didn't win the one hart and ross till after Lemieux, Gretzky, and Jagr were either out of the league or in decline. I'm saying the argument FOR Dats being elite is very similar to the argument FOR Forsberg being elite. Both are great talents and are/were very good players.
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Froggy on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:34 pm

i think datsyuk is very good. he is in my top 10. just not my top 5
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby pittsports87 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:46 pm

Who are 5 players better than Datsyuk?
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Re: Top 100 NHL Players

Postby Kraftster on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:59 pm

Different era for Forsberg to be comparing ppg.

I'd guess that Datsyuk is somewhere around 5-8 in PPG since the lockout. During that same time frame he's unquestionably been elite defensively. Can the other players ahead of him in PPG say that? If he is 5th in ppg since the lockout, even if his production does not rise to the level of "elite" status, apparently there are less than five other players that do have such elite production so the top five must include some non-elite players anyway.

Edit: Also, Conn Smythe or not, during that same seven year period, Datsyuk has 79 points in 84 playoff games.
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