Torres suspended until next round

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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 16, 2013 8:19 pm

torres is beyond a repeat offender. he's in his own cateogry. he's a special case deserving of an extreme suspension. guys like him need trained into avoiding peoples heads. if only there were some sort of comparable player on the penguins that people could use as a basis for understanding this suspension.

oh wait
Last edited by shmenguin on Thu May 16, 2013 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby MarioLives on Thu May 16, 2013 9:15 pm

I did not realize he was that bad if a dude
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Kraftster on Thu May 16, 2013 9:43 pm

Agree with bhaw. No idea what the argument is here. You're mad on this one, Rylan.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby meow on Thu May 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Have we ever seen Cooke and Torres in the same place at the same time? I'm not saying, I'm just saying...
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby brwi on Thu May 16, 2013 9:54 pm

Torres is a piece of trash that is a repeat offender and one of the dirtiest players in the game.

This "sentence" is likely a lot lighter for someone who doesn't have his history, especially after what he did to Hossa last year in the playoffs.

The days of trash like Dale Hunter deliberately injuring and knocking someone out of the playoffs for the hell of it or Bobby Clarke breaking someone's leg in world competition are over. Torres got punished because he's been nailed before this and no longer gets any benefit of the doubt. Tough.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby MarioLives on Thu May 16, 2013 9:59 pm

I did not realize he was that bad of a dude
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby columbia on Thu May 16, 2013 10:00 pm

I don't know Torres' complete record....has he ever leveled a hit as ridiculous as Cooke on McDonagh (which didn't even pretend to be a hockey play)?
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Great58 on Thu May 16, 2013 10:21 pm

I disagree with the decision. While I think Torres is a cheap shot artist, I don't see how initiating contact with the shoulder makes the head the intended point of contact. Shanahan is reacting to the player involved and the outcome of the play, both of which I disagree with. And I also disagree with the variable suspension. If it is a head shot and Torres is dangerous, should he come back sooner if the Sharks advance quickly? That too makes no sense.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Great58 on Thu May 16, 2013 10:24 pm

columbia wrote:I don't know Torres' complete record....has he ever leveled a hit as ridiculous as Cooke on McDonagh (which didn't even pretend to be a hockey play)?

He has a lot of suspensions for head shots, including forearms to the head. The leaping hit on Hossa's head last playoffs is as ridiculous as any I know of. So I suppose that was slightly more of a hockey play than Cooke's elbow.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu May 16, 2013 11:11 pm

They really need to make this black and white instead of having a huge gray area left to judgment. Offense # on one axis, violation on the other (elbow, charge, boarding, stick as a baseball bat), contact on the other (head, back, shoulder, "intended head"). I know there is still judgment involved, but this would at least set a principle for all players.

Sadly, they likely want to take outcome into effect as well, but a dirty hit is a dirty hit no matter the outcome.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby bhaw on Fri May 17, 2013 2:09 am

If you haven't seen it or don't remember, here is Torres apparently receiving undue persecution last year as well. He literally skates by the puck that Hossa lost so he can try to decapitate Hossa.

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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Kovy27 on Fri May 17, 2013 7:17 am

...and Matt Cooke is the villain.

I'm not sure how people don't see him as a menace of this game. However, if Cooke can change...Raffi sure as hell hasn't show the ability to change.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 17, 2013 7:53 am

3-6 games too many.

Let the "repeat offender" status impact the length of a suspension, not the decision whether or not to suspend someone.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 17, 2013 7:55 am

Kovy27 wrote:...and Matt Cooke is the villain.

I'm not sure how people don't see him as a menace of this game. However, if Cooke can change...Raffi sure as hell hasn't show the ability to change.


You must have missed the 2013 season.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Great58 on Fri May 17, 2013 11:22 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Let the "repeat offender" status impact the length of a suspension, not the decision whether or not to suspend someone.

Shanahan seems to go out of his way to find a reason to suspend him for a shoulder to shoulder check. He seems to get creative with the claim that even though the shoulder was the primary contact point that it was the head that was the intended target. Just like Gryba's hit on Eller shouldn't have been a penalty or suspension, neither should this. I applaud the desire to make the game safer, but I think they go to far in these instances.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby MRandall25 on Fri May 17, 2013 11:33 am

Because Torres had ample opportunity to hit him in the side instead of gunning for the head. Torres went for the head.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Fast B on Fri May 17, 2013 11:42 am

Torres is as bad as Cooke ever was, if not worse. I don't know how you can look at his body of work and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Cooke was talked to and cleaned up his game. Torres has not.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Kaizer on Fri May 17, 2013 11:48 am

isnt torres the guy who was suspended for a whole round, and got thrown out of his next game back for a headshot? its time for him to get the cooke treatment, make him a hockey player.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 17, 2013 12:08 pm

Torres' game was clean this season. It was actually a story throughout the year that he had cleaned his game up.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby pfim on Fri May 17, 2013 12:31 pm

He aimed high and missed. A suspension is deserved and his history justifies the length. He glances the shoulder and the principal point of contact is the head. The video illustrates Torres took this path deliberately to hit high. He had the opportunity to take the lower risk hit and still dislodge the puck. He took the higher risk hit and is paying the price.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby mikey287 on Fri May 17, 2013 1:02 pm

pfim wrote:He aimed high and missed. A suspension is deserved and his history justifies the length. He glances the shoulder and the principal point of contact is the head. The video illustrates Torres took this path deliberately to hit high. He had the opportunity to take the lower risk hit and still dislodge the puck. He took the higher risk hit and is paying the price.


Now, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your post. But for conversation, what does the bolded mean to the "next" suspension?

No injury. No talk. Fair or unfair?

Let's look at a "missed connection"

Image

Dustin Brown takes a shot at Jaden Schwartz's head with his elbow, but misses...is this a can of worms that gets opened or is it a necessary thing to subdue this type of behavior?

This would keep Brendan Shanahan a little busier if he didn't just look at hits/attempts that invoked serious injury, yes?
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby MRandall25 on Fri May 17, 2013 1:16 pm

But Torres didn't "miss" as in miss contact. He still made contact with the head. It's pretty obvious from the video what his intent was, and the fact that he still made head contact is why he's sitting games out.

Image

He's aiming for, and makes contact with, the head. "Miss" in this case would be he didn't make initial contact with the head. Head contact was still made.

Image

He clearly has enough time from this shot to line up a body-on-body hit, but he doesn't.




And this is actually the 3rd year in a row he's made a questionable hit to someone's head. Remember this?

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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 17, 2013 1:16 pm

mikey287 wrote:
pfim wrote:He aimed high and missed. A suspension is deserved and his history justifies the length. He glances the shoulder and the principal point of contact is the head. The video illustrates Torres took this path deliberately to hit high. He had the opportunity to take the lower risk hit and still dislodge the puck. He took the higher risk hit and is paying the price.


Now, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your post. But for conversation, what does the bolded mean to the "next" suspension?

No injury. No talk. Fair or unfair?

Let's look at a "missed connection"

Image

Dustin Brown takes a shot at Jaden Schwartz's head with his elbow, but misses...is this a can of worms that gets opened or is it a necessary thing to subdue this type of behavior?

This would keep Brendan Shanahan a little busier if he didn't just look at hits/attempts that invoked serious injury, yes?

That's got to be the most obvious flagrant attempt at injuring another player that I've seen since McSorely v. Brashear. Disgustng.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby pfim on Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 pm

I think you're taking that out of context. Torres missed or glanced his shoulder, and hit him in the head, which is the illegal and suspendable action.

If you do try and compare the two circumstances, you're talking about intent. Then you need to think about why the NHL is suspending these guys. The suspensions aren't meant as punishment, they're given out to prevent these types of hits from happening.

There doesn't seem to be much doubt about Brown's intent, but other than a trip, I don't see a penalty there.

I don't think Torres' intent was to hit him in the head, but he did. If we're suspending these guys to make the game safer, then there's no difference between intending to hurt someone or hurting someone while playing recklessly.

Then you get into the next step, which is can you fairly judge intent? While it may seem obvious, you really can't. You can only judge what actually occurred in each instance.
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Re: Torres suspended until next round

Postby shmenguin on Fri May 17, 2013 1:22 pm

rightfully, torres and brown are judged using different standards.
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