Varlamov Arrested

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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:41 am

You're argument is air tight. Here is a cookie. You're correct.

In seriousness...the portion of men who get abused and report it as tiny compared to that of women. If we are going to color those who don't come forward as unprotected, then lack of protection swings far to once side. Thanks for proving my point.

EDIT: I'm not sure why i'm participating in this argument with you. Of course there are a startling number horrible men out there that should probably be flayed, but there are plenty of women out there with no problem ruining someones life by claiming abuse because they get embarrassed by being dumped. They take advantage of those examples of horrific behavior for personal gain, knowing it is going to be assumed that what they say is true. I don't even know what you're arguing anyway, so i'm going to be done.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:31 am

Gaucho wrote:You seem to have made up your mind that Varlamov's gf cannot possibly be a true victim of abuse in this case.

Many women know that feeling all too well.



Not at all. You celebrate your mastery of English yet you missed important parts of my post:

ExPatriatePen wrote:... Who knows who's to blame in this case?

... it's not fair to the true victims of abuse who now have a higher bar to clear.




Obviously, I have NOT made up my mind because the evidence has not been presented. Yet you seem to have no problem rushing to judgement before the charges are even brought.

There are too many out there like you who try to show their moral superiority by immediately rushing to the defense of those who claim to be vicitims. Yet the truth is, just like in the Tawana Brawley case, we won't know if the acuser is the victim or perpretrator, and we don't know if the accused is the perpretrator or the victim.

Edit to correct spelling.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:43 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:You celebrate your mastery of English.


Image
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:49 am

Image
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby JiriSlegr on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:03 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Who looks out for the individual who's falsely accused?

What is the risk for a person when they make false accusations? Perjury? When have you ever known anyone convicted of perjury?

Who knows who's to blame in this case? I can only say that being falsely accused is a terrifying experience. To be arrested, booked, confined, dragged in front of a judge for arraignment. To hire an attorney to be brought to court repeatedly, to have a jury impaneled. To have a prosecuting attorney make false claims, a plaintiff lie on the stand, to have a jury deliberate. It's scary.

When you're acquitted. When the judge dismisses te case "with predjudice", it doesn't change the perception of guilt among the uninformed. And your accuser generally loses nothing. Has no risk of any consequences for their actions. Because if you were to even show signs of being frustrated, or angry, it would only validate their claims.

No, the system is flawed. It's not fair to the falsely accused, and it's not fair to the true victims of abuse who now have a higher bar to clear.


It's a fair question. There's two sides to every coin, and there are those who are falsely accused and have their lives ruined. I wouldn't blanket that sentiment with the notion of a woman "getting dumped," as that fails to properly explore the issue for what it is. Sure, there are vindictive girlfriends trying to shame their ex, but more often it's about money, possessions, child custody, winning the relationship--not to mention men who do the same to women.

If a person is falsely accused and his or her reputation tarnished, how does the system repair the damage? It's certainly quick to tear the individual down; why doesn't it help pick up the pieces afterwards?

So, yes, I agree that the current system is broken. It's one in which winning and losing trumps truth and justice. And while there are cases in which individuals are convicted of perjury, the damage is done and far outweighs the minor fine (or in very rare cases, the limited prison sentence).

The question then is how to fix the system, and my answer (which I am ready to change with additional information) is education and reform. We need to educate our country on what domestic abuse is and what to do should we find ourselves in that loathsome position. That means more support systems, more avenues for victims to explore (more shelters for the abused, homes that could take children as well, phone numbers with contacts, information. Calling the police is a scary thing, and often means never being able to go back--a scary thing. Some people need to inch their way forward, however foolish). People should also know how to look for possible signs, be they aggressive behavior or acts of violence. And men and women who are lucky enough to be in loving and/or single relationships should hold off their judgment and treat every person as an individual (and not as a fool).

Also remember that people change. A loving relationship can turn sour over time, be it because of job failure, mental illness, PTSD, etc. Would it be so easy to leave your wife or husband of 20 years because they had a stroke and their personality changed? Is it so easy to break ties and support to the mother or father returned from war with the blank stare and drug addiction?

It's easy to say that men and women are stupid for sticking in a violent situation, but what if there are children involved? What if there's no money to provide housing, no relative willing to aid your escape? What if you don't have the tools of a proper education (inner cities, rural towns) to make it on your own. Remember, we are in a recession. There aren't people clamoring from the rooftops looking for employees. It's hard enough for college educated men and women to find jobs. What if you just have your GED? Or not even that?

And we are human beings: we crave a place of safety and comfort. It can be terrifying to consider a life outside of your own, and sometimes people need our help to see the light outside the darkness of their current lives.

In terms of reform, we need to remove the incentives for police officers, judges, and lawyers to win. That means enough crime by numbers, enough DAs chosen by win record--every case needs to be treated on its own merits and on the basis of its truth. It's a court filled with people and it will get things wrong. But we can better and we need to at least attempt to be so.

In terms of the damage down to family and friends, there's no easy answer. There's comfort in being part of a group, and there's comfort in pointing the finger at people and saying they can't be part of that group. Again, I would suggest that it takes being informed, being educated, to battle this issue.

I apologize if I got off topic, but I enjoy the discussion.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Jim on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:30 am

So, every instance that gets reports is proof of a thing. Every time something isn't reported it is also proof of a thing. Facts are irrelevant because it "might have" or "could have" happened. We are all guilty every day whether it is reported or not. Note, it makes no difference if anything was done... it was reported, so it happened... or it wasn't reported, so it still happened it just wasn't reported. I am just glad that I am wearing a grey shirt today!
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:43 am

Meh, I guess me fail English after all.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:10 pm

Gaucho wrote:Meh, I guess me fail English after all.

Not English, just comprehension and logic.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:25 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Meh, I guess me fail English after all.

Not English, just comprehension and logic.


Yeah, I love you too.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:51 pm

The thing to take away from all of this is to not judge either party until all the facts are available. Too many people have their lives ruined because people rush to judgement without all the facts.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:48 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:The thing to take away from all of this is to not judge either party until all the facts are available. Too many people have their lives ruined because people rush to judgement without all the facts.


By "either party" , do you mean Gaucho and EPP? :lol:
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby IanMoran on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:34 pm

How about we all just say "I don't know," and wait?

It's the only correct response
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:38 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:The thing to take away from all of this is to not judge either party until all the facts are available.


Why yes, of course.
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Re: Varlamov Arrested

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:22 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
I think it's reasonable to suspect *both* at this point in time.


Gaucho wrote:I don't know, when a person is accused of violently beating up another person I don't normally suspect both. That would, in fact, be totally unreasonable.


ExPatriatePen wrote:
Obviously, I have NOT made up my mind because the evidence has not been presented.
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