Rangers vs Flyers

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Postby Peter on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:36 am

True, I think Carolina is my team for the rest of the year. I hope Erik Cole is okay.

Ok let me rephrase:

"I wish the Pens were as good as the Canes"

Wooooooo
Peter
 

Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:39 pm

NIN wrote:IN clossing I must say that the Pens teams in the early 90's were very tough by NHL standards those days. They were alot like todays Senetore who are skilled and tough. Stevens Lemieux Tocchet is my all-time favorite line and nobody messed with Mario those days. They beat the crap out of teams physically and intimidated others with skill.


That is huge misnomer. Perception does not equal reality. Lemieux never took a bigger beating than he did in the 93 series versus the NYI, ironically at the hands of Kaspar. I've seen many highlights of that series recently on the Canadian dish due to Lemieux's retirement. The amount of unanswered abuse Lemieux endured that series was amazing.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:23 pm

Draftnik wrote:
NIN wrote:IN clossing I must say that the Pens teams in the early 90's were very tough by NHL standards those days. They were alot like todays Senetore who are skilled and tough. Stevens Lemieux Tocchet is my all-time favorite line and nobody messed with Mario those days. They beat the crap out of teams physically and intimidated others with skill.


That is huge misnomer. Perception does not equal reality. Lemieux never took a bigger beating than he did in the 93 series versus the NYI, ironically at the hands of Kaspar. I've seen many highlights of that series recently on the Canadian dish due to Lemieux's retirement. The amount of unanswered abuse Lemieux endured that series was amazing.


Obviously they were not as tough as that tea, that year but they out-toughed many a team in those days. Guys like Loney and Tags were by no means timid.

The Islanders played a tough gritty style that aggittated the Pens every game.They sacrificed their bodies to make plays and basically did all the dirty little things more often and better then the Pens were willing too. That does not mean the Pens were not among the toughest teams in the league those days because they were!
NIN
 

Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:15 pm

NIN wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
NIN wrote:IN clossing I must say that the Pens teams in the early 90's were very tough by NHL standards those days. They were alot like todays Senetore who are skilled and tough. Stevens Lemieux Tocchet is my all-time favorite line and nobody messed with Mario those days. They beat the crap out of teams physically and intimidated others with skill.


That is huge misnomer. Perception does not equal reality. Lemieux never took a bigger beating than he did in the 93 series versus the NYI, ironically at the hands of Kaspar. I've seen many highlights of that series recently on the Canadian dish due to Lemieux's retirement. The amount of unanswered abuse Lemieux endured that series was amazing.


Obviously they were not as tough as that tea, that year but they out-toughed many a team in those days. Guys like Loney and Tags were by no means timid.

The Islanders played a tough gritty style that aggittated the Pens every game.They sacrificed their bodies to make plays and basically did all the dirty little things more often and better then the Pens were willing too. That does not mean the Pens were not among the toughest teams in the league those days because they were!


Lemieux was repeatedly cross checked, punched in the face, and other dirty stuff. Somebody needed to answer the bell with some cheap shots back to Kaspar. Tocchet, Stevens, Ulfie... nobody answered the abuse. I remember a few years later after those guys were gone Lemieux had to engage Rich Pilon in a fencing battle. I don't think Lemieux was ever protected adequately. That is why the abuse Crosby was absorbing earlier this year was unforgivable. If anybody knew how much that should have been prevented from happening to a superstar it is Lemieux.

Pens fans definitely like rough hockey. The loudest I ever heard the Igloo including Cup games and all playoff games from 91-01 was the regular season game when Kaspar KOed Lindros. The Igloo was never louder when a dazed Lindros fell down after he tried to get up the first time. There are 2 things you will hear for sure at a Pens game. "Shoot," because most Pens fans hate to see them try and pass for a tap in goal; the other thing is "hit somebody."
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:45 pm

Draftnik wrote:I don't think Lemieux was ever protected adequately. That is why the abuse Crosby was absorbing earlier this year was unforgivable. If anybody knew how much that should have been prevented from happening to a superstar it is Lemieux.


Who could they get though? As the year has progressed, it has become more and more evident that you can have a guy on your team to ride shotgun for your star player ala Dave Semenko. What they really need for Crosby is a Rick Tocchet type, someone that can play but has heavy hands when needed. Those guys are hard to come by. Maybe a guy like Brendan Morrow? The price to acquire him would be pretty high.

I agree with your premise, I'm just not sure how they could adequately address the probelm...
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,346
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:58 pm

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:I don't think Lemieux was ever protected adequately. That is why the abuse Crosby was absorbing earlier this year was unforgivable. If anybody knew how much that should have been prevented from happening to a superstar it is Lemieux.


Who could they get though? As the year has progressed, it has become more and more evident that you can have a guy on your team to ride shotgun for your star player ala Dave Semenko. What they really need for Crosby is a Rick Tocchet type, someone that can play but has heavy hands when needed. Those guys are hard to come by. Maybe a guy like Brendan Morrow? The price to acquire him would be pretty high.

I agree with your premise, I'm just not sure how they could adequately address the probelm...


The Crosby problem has abated since Cairns was acquired. WWSD (what would Semenko do) should be the motto for any enforcer dressing with Lemieux, Crosby, etc. I still think any player on the ice with Crosby including Recchi should have answered the cheap shots with slashes, butt ends, spears, ... There was a 2-3 week stretch where Crosby was getting killed. It was highlighted in Atlanta where the full gamut of players from superstar (Kovalchuk) to goon (Sutton) took turns abusing Sid.

Tocchet seems like the prototype guy to protect and add value as a player, but in reality Lemieux was abused by the Islanders in 93 and Tocchet, Stevens, etc did nothing. That is why the Pens went out and reacquired McSorely prior to the 93/94 season.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:13 pm

Draftnik wrote:The Crosby problem has abated since Cairns was acquired. WWSD (what would Semenko do) should be the motto for any enforcer dressing with Lemieux, Crosby, etc. I still think any player on the ice with Crosby including Recchi should have answered the cheap shots with slashes, butt ends, spears, ... There was a 2-3 week stretch where Crosby was getting killed. It was highlighted in Atlanta where the full gamut of players from superstar (Kovalchuk) to goon (Sutton) took turns abusing Sid.


How much of that is really attributable to Cairns though? He was rarely on the ice with Sid and even when he dressed, he was routinely getting 10 minutes or less per game. Is the threat of him on the bench that big of a deterrent?

I definitely agree with you on what his linemates should be doing, but not many guys on this team seem inclined to do that type of stuff.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,346
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:31 pm

netwolf wrote:[How much of that is really attributable to Cairns though? He was rarely on the ice with Sid and even when he dressed, he was routinely getting 10 minutes or less per game. Is the threat of him on the bench that big of a deterrent?


IMO the abuse ended when Cairns was acquired. I agree he never plays, but is it just a coincidence things have settled down with his arrival? Either way the problem seems to have been temporarily solved.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:39 pm

Draftnik wrote:IMO the abuse ended when Cairns was acquired. I agree he never plays, but is it just a coincidence things have settled down with his arrival? Either way the problem seems to have been temporarily solved.


Maybe the "let's test the new kid" phase ended? I don't know. I just don't understand how a guy that never plays can be that big of a deterrent. If he is, then he must be feared around the league more than I ever thought.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,346
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:38 am

My original statement was aimed at correcting FN, he said the Pens have been the softest team since 1980 and that simply wasn't true in the early 90's. Not many teams wanted to play it rough during the season because Tocchet and Stevens were beasts and you did'nt want to draw the angst of Ulfie. He provided a different kind of intimidation for a time.

The Islanders were a tougher team and they definately got inside the head of the Penguins. When Stevens ran into that Pilon the dynasty crumbled before our eyes. It was a pretty poetic end to a an era of dominance. Hockey is a funny game because you can be the best team and lose so often. It really is a game of passion and the Islanders had more of that to go along with their toughness.

Should Ulfie have run their best players like Thomas and Ferraro? LOL I mean c'mon what do you do to that team that having those guys in the lineup isn't going to do for you. They were vastly out classed talent wise but the Penguins could not intimidate them and instead they tried to "ignore" them in an effort to win on the power play. That was the wise move to make, retaliation would only encourage players like Kaspar anyways and it had worked in the past for the Pens. Unfortuneately that Islander PK unit was strong indeed and their goalie made crucial saves while ours often failed to.

As for today I think Cairns is definately a very effective deterent. He wont be dressed going into an intradivional skill game for example and he wont get more icetime then is absolutely needed. His job is to make sure nobody is giving the skilled guys more of a hard time then is typical. He is a heavy weight and it is alot to awnser for if you cheapshot Crosby.

I would love to see Iginla wearing a Pens jersey and skating along side Crosby. Fast, skilled, strong, lethel shot, and very tough. Iginla would drop with anyone if needed and he is respected for that around the league. He has won his fair share of battles but he is a notch below a heavy weight. It is rare indeed to find a legitimate skill and heavy weight combo these days. Most kids who play hockey go to the best camps to get as good as Iginla and don't have much use for fighting. Iginla is a throw back and the Pens NEED to find the next Iginla. He could score 100 on Crosby's line.
NIN
 

Postby netwolf on Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:01 am

NIN wrote:Pens NEED to find the next Iginla. He could score 100 on Crosby's line.


You aren't asking for much, are ya? :D
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,346
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:23 am

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:IMO the abuse ended when Cairns was acquired. I agree he never plays, but is it just a coincidence things have settled down with his arrival? Either way the problem seems to have been temporarily solved.


Maybe the "let's test the new kid" phase ended? I don't know. I just don't understand how a guy that never plays can be that big of a deterrent. If he is, then he must be feared around the league more than I ever thought.


Don't everyone laugh now, but Andre Roy being back in the loineup might be helping in this regard too.
Mad City Mike
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,754
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:14 am
Location: De Forest, WI

Previous

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

e-mail