Thoughts After The Two Game Debacle

[kirk]

I think it's time to admit that the Pens were not as good as they looked a few weeks ago. A lot of us wrote that. By the same token, it's premature to admit that the Pens are as bad as they have looked in the last three games. Nonetheless, I am a little steamed about a couple of things:

1. After Sid and Malkin were shut down by two of the best defensive teams in the league-- San Jose and Anaheim-- people clamored for a breakup of the dynamic duo. Some of us did not. Some of us figured that they couldn't score every game. Some of us saw the overall effort of all of the team's forward lines against the Sharks and the Ducks and thought if Sid and Malkin kept plugging away things would be fine. It's time to recognize that Sid and Malkin are the only two forwards on the Pens capable of playing well with one another with any consistency. It's not an ideal situation, but there should have been much greater appreciation for the fact that it was going to take time for Sid and Malkin to learn to play with one another and for Malkin to learn to play the LW and that they couldn't score every game.

2. Did anyone else notice Malkin on the PK yesterday? Malkin has not impressed me defensively. I chalked that up to his jumping between LW and C and having to think too much on the ice at 5 on 5. But, in limited PK time yesterday, I saw exactly why everyone talked about his PK prowess. He takes away passing lanes. He clears the puck. He pressures. In other words, why haven't the coaches used him on the PK until yesterday?

3. Michel Ouellet is not a panacea. I know Therrien treats him that way for whatever ungodly reason. I know he scores more consistently than most Pens forwards. But, he is slow, his defensive positioning is o'k on a good night, and he doesn't win battles along the boards. Put simply, he doesn't have the skill set to play with Sid and/or Malkin.

4. One of the consequences of all of the line juggling is that Staal has been a yo-yo. Oh, he's not playing as well as he was, but I do have two problems with the way he is being used. First, the Ekman-Staal-Recchi line (a) was stable and (b) put Jordan in a position to succeed. Second, I don't understand using Staal as the lead forechecker. With his reach and anticipation defensively, he should be used, as he was early in the season, to clog up the neutral zone.

5. With all due respect to the Moore trade, the Mark Eaton signing has been proven to be Shero's move of the offseason. The Pens defense cannot clear the puck, no longer is keeping play to the perimeter, and is a liability in transition and the offensive zone.

6. By extension, the problem with the Pens PP should be pretty obvious. Teams will make sure Goch doesn't get a clean look from the point and that Sid and Malkin are kept to the perimeter. The reason they can do this with four players is twofold. One, the other forward on the PP, whoever he is, is a non-factor on the perimeter. Two, the opposing PK has no fear about a shot from the other point (be it from Recchi, Whitney, or the other defender). A little imagination-- and perhaps Sid or Malkin on the point-- would help. Perhaps it might help to keep Sid and Malkin further apart on the PP also. It's a lot harder to attack them when they're not within 10 feet of one another. I'm not saying it will work, but, with all of the juggling, maybe trying something here would work.

7. With all of the line juggling, would someone please explain to me why Talbot and Moore-- two players who are playing with a lot of jump-- aren't getting their regular shots on the first two lines?

[Mad City Mike]

7. With all of the line juggling, would someone please explain to me why Talbot and Moore-- two players who are playing with a lot of jump-- aren't getting their regular shots on the first two lines?

I am also wondering whether both should be given some PP time? The PP guys are not working hard enough, and we know that is not a problem Moore or Talbot has. And besides, we are back to last year's method of losing every faceoff and then taking half the PP just to get back into the zone. At least Moore can win a draw. And I'll bet he'd muck in the corners and get dirty in front of the net, too.

[kirk]

7. With all of the line juggling, would someone please explain to me why Talbot and Moore-- two players who are playing with a lot of jump-- aren't getting their regular shots on the first two lines?

I am also wondering whether both should be given some PP time? The PP guys are not working hard enough, and we know that is not a problem Moore or Talbot has. And besides, we are back to last year's method of losing every faceoff and then taking half the PP just to get back into the zone. At least Moore can win a draw. And I'll bet he'd muck in the corners and get dirty in front of the net, too.

Something new would be nice. Forget about the percentages. The Pens do not control play on the PP. Maybe Sid and Malkin on opposite sides would work. With Malkin's stick handling, maybe using him in front of and around the net would work. The fact is that Sid and Malkin, on the same side of the ice and on the perimeter, does not pressure the PK, and the only way you control the PP is by pressuring the PK (a lesson the Pens got the last three games).

[edog]

I think it's time to admit that the Pens were not as good as they looked a few weeks ago. A lot of us wrote that. By the same token, it's premature to admit that the Pens are as bad as they have looked in the last three games. Nonetheless, I am a little steamed about a couple of things:

1. After Sid and Malkin were shut down by two of the best defensive teams in the league-- San Jose and Anaheim-- people clamored for a breakup of the dynamic duo. Some of us did not. Some of us figured that they couldn't score every game. Some of us saw the overall effort of all of the team's forward lines against the Sharks and the Ducks and thought if Sid and Malkin kept plugging away things would be fine. It's time to recognize that Sid and Malkin are the only two forwards on the Pens capable of playing well with one another with any consistency. It's not an ideal situation, but there should have been much greater appreciation for the fact that it was going to take time for Sid and Malkin to learn to play with one another and for Malkin to learn to play the LW and that they couldn't score every game.

2. Did anyone else notice Malkin on the PK yesterday? Malkin has not impressed me defensively. I chalked that up to his jumping between LW and C and having to think too much on the ice at 5 on 5. But, in limited PK time yesterday, I saw exactly why everyone talked about his PK prowess. He takes away passing lanes. He clears the puck. He pressures. In other words, why haven't the coaches used him on the PK until yesterday?

3. Michel Ouellet is not a panacea. I know Therrien treats him that way for whatever ungodly reason. I know he scores more consistently than most Pens forwards. But, he is slow, his defensive positioning is o'k on a good night, and he doesn't win battles along the boards. Put simply, he doesn't have the skill set to play with Sid and/or Malkin.

4. One of the consequences of all of the line juggling is that Staal has been a yo-yo. Oh, he's not playing as well as he was, but I do have two problems with the way he is being used. First, the Ekman-Staal-Recchi line (a) was stable and (b) put Jordan in a position to succeed. Second, I don't understand using Staal as the lead forechecker. With his reach and anticipation defensively, he should be used, as he was early in the season, to clog up the neutral zone.

5. With all due respect to the Moore trade, the Mark Eaton signing has been proven to be Shero's move of the offseason. The Pens defense cannot clear the puck, no longer is keeping play to the perimeter, and is a liability in transition and the offensive zone.

6. By extension, the problem with the Pens PP should be pretty obvious. Teams will make sure Goch doesn't get a clean look from the point and that Sid and Malkin are kept to the perimeter. The reason they can do this with four players is twofold. One, the other forward on the PP, whoever he is, is a non-factor on the perimeter. Two, the opposing PK has no fear about a shot from the other point (be it from Recchi, Whitney, or the other defender). A little imagination-- and perhaps Sid or Malkin on the point-- would help. Perhaps it might help to keep Sid and Malkin further apart on the PP also. It's a lot harder to attack them when they're not within 10 feet of one another. I'm not saying it will work, but, with all of the juggling, maybe trying something here would work.

7. With all of the line juggling, would someone please explain to me why Talbot and Moore-- two players who are playing with a lot of jump-- aren't getting their regular shots on the first two lines?

Well put kirk. We are not getting any shots from the point & Staal is not being properly utilized. I don't get Recchi on the point on the PP either. I would put Malkin out there since he has a cannon of a shot....

[yeltzen]

It wouldn't be ridiculous at all to have third and fourth line centers taking a regular shift on the top two lines.

[André]

Go back to Malkin - Crosby - Armstrong and Ekman - Staal - Recchi and keep it that way for a while.

[magnum]

It wouldn't be ridiculous at all to have third and fourth line centers taking a regular shift on the top two lines.

I agree. Although I'm against the constant line juggling. Talbot and Moore play really good integral roles on the liens they're playing on. The 4th line is still hampered too much by having slow John LeClair there but Talbot and Thorburn are some energy guys and gritty. I like them on the 3rd line and think a guy like Petrovicky is going to really help that line out... Moore's line is at it's BEST when Ruutu and Oulette is on it. Armstrong is a decent addition to that line as well. That's what Oulette and Armstrong are. 3rd line players...

Problem with the 3rd line and they have seemed invisible lately is that Therrien isn't using them right in match-ups. I personally hate the concept of 1st line against 1st line. I understand that it is done so our first line isn't going against the other teams better defensive forwards but since we have poor puck possession and can't clear the pucks defensively, the top lines of other teams are smothering us right now. I thought the concept of having 3rd and 4th liens was to shut down the top 2 lines of other teams. They can do it, but aren't being allowed to.

As for the topic. I've never hopped off of the bandwagon. The Pens really aren't as bad as they have showed these past 2 games. They aren't good enough to win games against the best teams in the league but we all knew that. Being 7-3 still, nobody really though we could beat Anaheim and San Jose and that we'd be happy with competitive games. We got that. My only problem is that I thought the Pens would be improving all the way through the season and for whatever reasons (line juggling, Eaton's absence, poor PP, puck possession, lack of wingers, chemistry etc...) it seems like we haven't progressed much at all while other teams are and this is going to hurt the Pens in the long run unless Therrien, Yeo and Savard right the ship.

[nexguy66]

Go back to Malkin - Crosby - Armstrong and Ekman - Staal - Recchi and keep it that way for a while.

Agreed

[kirk]

Go back to Malkin - Crosby - Armstrong and Ekman - Staal - Recchi and keep it that way for a while.

With the proviso that the other two lines are Ruutu-Moore-Ouellet and LeClair-Talbot-Thorburn. The first chink in the proverbial armor on the "balanced lines" started when MT saddled Moore with LeClair and Ouellet (and that line was eaten apart). John Madden couldn't handle that defensive responsibility.

[aquaman]

I know some of you going to think I lost it but I thought Alain Nasirdenne did a good job up here last year. That would be my first move to call him up and sit Gonchar or Whitney. I know all about Scuderi and Melichar, but least they try.

[yeltzen]

I know some of you going to think I lost it but I thought Alain Nasirdenne did a good job up here last year. That would be my first move to call him up and sit Gonchar or Whitney. I know all about Scuderi and Melichar, but least they try.

Personally, I think we should call up players until we have 89 men on the 23-man roster.

[Andrew]

I didn't catch too many games last year. How well did he play?

[aquaman]

I thought he was there best defencemen

[Andrew]

I'd say call him up then.

[aquaman]

the other move I make is putting Malkin and Sid on the penalty kill more.

[yeltzen]

I think we should call Christensen up and send Crosby on a conditioning stint.

[PenguinMan]

I know some of you going to think I lost it but I thought Alain Nasirdenne did a good job up here last year. That would be my first move to call him up and sit Gonchar or Whitney. I know all about Scuderi and Melichar, but least they try.

Personally, I think we should call up players until we have 89 men on the 23-man roster.

I know Gonchar still hasn't lived up to the expectations but he's game so far is 500% improvement from the beginning of last year. All the others from last year pretty much look the same.

[aquaman]

Gonchar is terrible five on five and on the PP he takes ten minutes to bring the puck up ice and then gives it away. The one time Malkin brought it up he went right in and set it up.

[yeltzen]

Gonchar is terrible five on five and on the PP he takes ten minutes to bring the puck up ice and then gives it away. The one time Malkin brought it up he went right in and set it up.

Nasridenne brings it up even faster than Malkin.

[aquaman]

I forgot to say, put Malkin on the point.

[aquaman]

Yelstin you from Russia? you dingleberry

[kirk]

I forgot to say, put Malkin on the point.

Why would you do something like that? You'd ruin everything for the opposing PK. Right now, they can use one guy to take away Gonch from the point, two guys to keep Sid and Malkin on the perimeter, and the other guy to take away the back door. They don't have to worry about the other point player or the other forward on the perimeter right now.

If you stick Malkin on the point, then you'd have two players who can shoot from the point. If you then stuck a big body in front of the net, you could keep the opposition honest. What are you trying to do, create a PP that can pressure the opposition?

[yeltzen]

If we had point guys on the PP that would actually take a shot every once in a while, I would like to see LeClair on the PP. But, since our point guys like to feed Crosby for a one-timer (wtf?) that just won't work.

[edog]

Gonchar is terrible five on five and on the PP he takes ten minutes to bring the puck up ice and then gives it away. The one time Malkin brought it up he went right in and set it up.

Who else do we have back there to do it....