Pens Under Edzo/Therrien--The Numbers

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Pens Under Edzo/Therrien--The Numbers

Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:22 pm

I posted this a couple,weeks ago, and am now updating it.

Goals per game
Edzo: 2.65
MT: 3.00
Result: 0.35 more goals per game.


Goals against per game
Edzo: 4.00
MT: 3.86
Result: 0.14 less goals allowed per game

Power play
Edzo: 14.9%
MT: 23.7%
Result: huge improvement of 8.8%

Penalty Kill
Edzo: 79.7%
MT: 77.2%
Result: amzingly, the PK is 2.5% worse under Therrien

Winning Percentage
Edzo: .355
MT: .286
Result: a decline of .069.

So if you look at it, the numbers are marginally better in most categories, but the winning percentage is much worse. What this says, I'm not sure.
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Postby netwolf on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:24 pm

I think it says the makeup of the team is a mess.
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Postby Bowser on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:26 pm

MCM - What it says is the Pens were in REALLY bad shape when MT took over for Edzo. There was no system. There are few quality NHL players on the roster. There was little if any team unity. There was no dressing room leadership.

MT is not a long term coach for this team, I have no idea why Craig Patrick gave him a 3-year contract. I hate the trap but I hope this trap helps teach some of our young players about defense, hard work, leadership, and team unity.
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Postby DelPen on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:26 pm

Without checking the scores I would say there have been less blow out losses under Therrien and more close losses.
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Postby Hawkeynut on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:29 pm

Games are better to watch now. They are playing some resemblance of a system and things are (besides a couple games) getting better.

Now I am not saying they are getting better to the point that they are going to go on a 20-0 tear or anything but at least they are learning.

This is a bizarre season, there is absolutly nothing worse that could happen on ice next year that could match this. Besides a huge injury to Crosby or Fleury.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:30 pm

DelPen wrote:Without checking the scores I would say there have been less blow out losses under Therrien and more close losses.


If you count any loss of more than three goals as a blowout, there were four under Edzo and two under Therrien.
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Interesting Stats- thanks

Postby Penspal on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:31 pm

I'd agree with Delpen. The team gives a more consistent effort, and have lost some close ones.

As for the PK, get Recchi off of it. No team should have a 38 year old guy playing pp, pk, and 1st or 2nd line every night.

Also, a centre who can win draws will improve the PK.

Again, thanks for the stats, I think there is more to learn in stats like this than there is in wins/losses/points.

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Postby DelPen on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:32 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
DelPen wrote:Without checking the scores I would say there have been less blow out losses under Therrien and more close losses.


If you count any loss of more than three goals as a blowout, there were four under Edzo and two under Therrien.


Another thing to consider are those semi-come backs when they got down by 4 or 5 goals and came back and lost by 1 or 2. Under Edzo they usually ended up still losing.

But MCM, what's the point of this? Everyone but Zscout agrees Edzo was bad and Therrien is better. Why must you bring up bad memories :D
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:33 pm

Bowser wrote:MCM - What it says is the Pens were in REALLY bad shape when MT took over for Edzo. There was no system. There are few quality NHL players on the roster. There was little if any team unity. There was no dressing room leadership.

MT is not a long term coach for this team, I have no idea why Craig Patrick gave him a 3-year contract. I hate the trap but I hope this trap helps teach some of our young players about defense, hard work, leadership, and team unity.


Couldn't agree more. Edzo was not a good coach. I don't know that Therrien is either. But as they say, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken bleep. Scotty Bowman himself couldn't make this team competitive. There just isn't that much talent.

And it also says unless they look upstairs to the source of the problem, nothing will change.
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To Point Out How Terrible the Roster Is

Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:36 pm

DelPen wrote:But MCM, what's the point of this? Everyone but Zscout agrees Edzo was bad and Therrien is better. Why must you bring up bad memories :D


It is to further my agenda that the problem is the GM, and NOT the coach :twisted:
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the comparison looked better for MT after 10 games

Postby relantel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:38 pm

But as we know, the season is far more than a single 10 game stretch. If I recall, after 10 games, the Pens were -1 on GF vs GA in those 10 games, as there was one big win, several close losses including a coulpe in OT.

Then the wheels fell off. I think MT's struggles go to show that the problems of this team are not all the fault of Edzo. Then again, as several old-style LGP threads have shown, Edzo was not the most ideal choice for the role.

Personally, I wish the Pens would have reassigned Edzo over the summer or before. Same thing with Hlinka. Should've let him go in the offseason instead of after 4 games in 01-02. Didn't understand the short tether there, and the long one for Edzo.

But what do I know. I don't claim to be an expert by any means.
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Postby Tazman5099 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:46 pm

It says that we sucks less. You can put butter on brussel sprouts, but that doesn't mean they'll taste any better. They are still brussel sprouts. Until our talent level improves, we will still be at the bottom of the league.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:03 pm

MCM, I think you are missing the key stat. If I recall correctly Sid had really been sucked into the malaise created by Edzo and the Pens vets. His last 6-8 games under Edzo were very poor. I think the timing of the change was made to prevent him from slipping into a deep funk. I know he got a decent bump in Therrien's first 10 or so games.

The Pens were never going to be a good team no matter who their coach was, but at least under Therrien they will develop good work habits and learn how to play as professionals. Edzo was equivalent to that preschool teaching style that lets little kids do whatever they want.
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Postby freq019 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:05 pm

I see this as proof that edzo wasn't the reason this team sucked, it sucked straight out of the box.

Also as pierre maquire?( the guy who was at center ice) pointed out on saturday we still don't have a defensive system and the rangers were mocking us in their interviews saying how much room their was out there for them to move around in.
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Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:08 pm

To me, the biggest difference is that the players seem to have some idea of how to play the game at the NHL level now.....they are just doing a poor job of it. Earlier in the season, they looked like a really good beer league team.

Biggest surprise has been how well some of the WBS kids have adapted to the NHL. Not just their play, but the roles that they are filling. Ouellet, Armstrong, Talbot (despite his recent demotion), Scuderi, Whitney....they've all played pretty well. Ouellet in particular.....who knew?

Anyway, that's what it's all about for me. And that's reason enough for guarded optimism for the future.
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Postby relantel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:18 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Anyway, that's what it's all about for me. And that's reason enough for guarded optimism for the future.


Good point -- the 7-1 game vs the rangers aside, there had been a reason to watch the team -- they appeared to be getting a better overall effort.
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Postby Shinoix on Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:45 pm

I agree, this team is much better to watch now, aside from the Rangers game.

They look like they know more of what they're doing, and I just have more confidence in having a coach like Therrien behind the bench.


Give it time people, I'll guarantee he'll have input on who they bring in next year. He knows what they need to make his system work, then watch the improvement start!

Right now it's hard to run a defensive type system with LeClair, Jackman, Tarnstrom (was), etc.....he needs skaters and grinders like he had in WBS, and I'm assuming he'll get that.
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