New Barry Bonds steroid revelations

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New Barry Bonds steroid revelations

Postby GJ on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:08 pm

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Postby Hockeynut! on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:42 pm

Wow, that's crazy. If Bonds dies before he turns 50, I wonder if it was worth it.
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if that happens

Postby rasbatch on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:46 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:Wow, that's crazy. If Bonds dies before he turns 50, I wonder if it was worth it.
it'd be fine by me I hate that jerk. :twisted:
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Postby Jamie on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:52 pm

I think that if this is proven to be true, MLB will have an enormous black eye. What do you do with Bonds records? I think at the very least the home run record should have an asterik placed beside it. I have no doubt that Bonds juiced up.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm

Just go to the photo pictorial.

Contrast pictures 2,3 and 4 with pictures 9,10, and 11.

I just wish they'd prove it definitively. I'd love to see him with an asterisk by his name.
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Postby plasticbratt on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:05 pm

According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.


I guess that explains the whole cross-dressing thing.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:44 pm

The NY Daily news had a story from an ex-FBI agent on steroid evidence against Mark McGuire. The feds went to MLB when McGuire was still playing and MLB wanted nothing to do with the evidence. It was part of a multi-year investigation into a steroid distribution ring. McGuire as a user was not the target, but still was clearly implicated as a heavy user.

Somehow the public ignores this while Bonds is crucified mostly based on evidence that is supposed to be sealed as part of Grand Jury testimony/investigation. His due process has been violated here and the constitution trashed. There is a double standard from the media, fans, and judicial system when it comes to McGuire and Bonds.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:49 pm

Andy Van Slyke would kick Bond's ass... yay
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Postby Hockeynut! on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:51 pm

The steroid issue blew up after McGwire retired. If he was still playing(and putting up huge numbers)and this was coming out, he'd definitely be getting reamed too. No one cares about retired athletes who everyone already assumed used steroids and has already has his records broken.

MLB was still trying to cover up ALL the allegations when the McGwire stuff went down. It's too late to cover it up now that Balco admitted what happened.

Bonds didn't have any rights violated. He was granted immunity and isn't going to face any criminal charges.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:10 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:Bonds didn't have any rights violated. He was granted immunity and isn't going to face any criminal charges.


Grand Jury testimony is supposed to remain sealed. It is a crime (literally) for it to be released. Bonds testimony being leaked is a crime:

http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.balco20sep20,0,7441377.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

There never was a trial so unless Bonds released his own testimony it never should have been made public. That is a fact, not my opinion.
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Re: if that happens

Postby Peter on Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:12 pm

rasbatch wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:Wow, that's crazy. If Bonds dies before he turns 50, I wonder if it was worth it.
it'd be fine by me I hate that jerk. :twisted:


I really hope you're kidding. That's really not cool.

jamie wrote:I think that if this is proven to be true, MLB will have an enormous black eye.


Not true. It's not like people didn't know. Baseball will be fine, unfortunately. People won't think twice about it. There are no more surprises these days, we know people have been juiced up.

Speaking of which, join the LGP on Juice Fantasy Baseball League!!!!
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Re: if that happens

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:22 pm

Peter wrote:Not true. It's not like people didn't know. Baseball will be fine, unfortunately. People won't think twice about it. There are no more surprises these days, we know people have been juiced up.


I don't follow MLB baseball anymore and I live in maybe the baseball capital of the world in NY.

The reason I don't? I could care less about watching a bunch of pincushions make a mockery of a sport that was once called the national past-time.

(Btw, I used to be such a huge baseball fan that I once took a job at Three Rivers Stadium just so I could be there for every ball game)
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Postby Jamie on Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 pm

Draftnik wrote:The NY Daily news had a story from an ex-FBI agent on steroid evidence against Mark McGuire. The feds went to MLB when McGuire was still playing and MLB wanted nothing to do with the evidence. It was part of a multi-year investigation into a steroid distribution ring. McGuire as a user was not the target, but still was clearly implicated as a heavy user.

Somehow the public ignores this while Bonds is crucified mostly based on evidence that is supposed to be sealed as part of Grand Jury testimony/investigation. His due process has been violated here and the constitution trashed. There is a double standard from the media, fans, and judicial system when it comes to McGuire and Bonds.


Draftnik I don't disagree that Bonds, rights may have been violated. But that is not the fault of anyone on this board. But now that it is public people should not ignore the fact Bonds lied. It is so obvious that he was juicing. He deserves to be crucified, along with Palmeiro, and Mcguire also. Bonds is a liar. He should forever have an asterisk beside his name.
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Re: if that happens

Postby Stevens25 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:38 pm

rasbatch wrote:
Hockeynut! wrote:Wow, that's crazy. If Bonds dies before he turns 50, I wonder if it was worth it.
it'd be fine by me I hate that jerk. :twisted:


Same here. He may be one of the best players ever,but he ranks just below Stalin as one of the greatest humans ever.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:23 am

Jamie wrote:Draftnik I don't disagree that Bonds, rights may have been violated. But that is not the fault of anyone on this board. But now that it is public people should not ignore the fact Bonds lied. It is so obvious that he was juicing. He deserves to be crucified, along with Palmeiro, and Mcguire also. Bonds is a liar. He should forever have an asterisk beside his name.


I don't think anybody ever doubted Bonds juiced. On the other hand so did McGuire (for many more years), Sosa, and every other guy bashing HRs in the late 90s/early 00s. I don't understand the moral authority people have to criticize Bonds. If I played MLB and saw Big Quack doing his thing I would have done the same thing as Bonds. Roids & HGH were not illegal to use in terms of MLB's rules so Selig and the owners gave tacit endorsement since it wasn't cheating. If I had the chance to make $20M per season and pass Ruth/Aaron I would juice in a second since it wasn't prohibited by my employer. I think most MLB guys including pitchers were juicing. I doubt many people would make a different decision than Bonds if they were faced with the same circumstances. Even now MLB's "testing" is a joke. Smart guys know when to cycle off and there still is no test for HGH which according to this book seems to be more effective than the Roids.

Bonds used chemical enhancements to improve his on the job performance without violating the rules set up by his employer. He isn't OJ Simpson that murdered 2 people and got away with it.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:13 am

Draftnik wrote: Even now MLB's "testing" is a joke. Smart guys know when to cycle off and there still is no test for HGH which according to this book seems to be more effective than the Roids.


There is a partial solution to the problem.

List the parameters of what's accepted (Vitamins, natural organic products and by products etc...) and what's not (synthetics,etc..) then collect blood samples from each player on a regular basis. Test a portion of the blood sample immediately for known sunstances. Save the remainder for 1,2,3 years or whatever, down the road.

Sure a player could still make millions using a new 'day zero' designer drug that was, at the time, undetectable. But as new testing methods are developed, eventually it will come out. The player will have made his millions, but he'll be immediately banned and any mention of him in the record books will be expunged.
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Postby Jamie on Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:12 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Jamie wrote:Draftnik I don't disagree that Bonds, rights may have been violated. But that is not the fault of anyone on this board. But now that it is public people should not ignore the fact Bonds lied. It is so obvious that he was juicing. He deserves to be crucified, along with Palmeiro, and Mcguire also. Bonds is a liar. He should forever have an asterisk beside his name.


I don't think anybody ever doubted Bonds juiced. On the other hand so did McGuire (for many more years), Sosa, and every other guy bashing HRs in the late 90s/early 00s. I don't understand the moral authority people have to criticize Bonds. If I played MLB and saw Big Quack doing his thing I would have done the same thing as Bonds. Roids & HGH were not illegal to use in terms of MLB's rules so Selig and the owners gave tacit endorsement since it wasn't cheating. If I had the chance to make $20M per season and pass Ruth/Aaron I would juice in a second since it wasn't prohibited by my employer. I think most MLB guys including pitchers were juicing. I doubt many people would make a different decision than Bonds if they were faced with the same circumstances. Even now MLB's "testing" is a joke. Smart guys know when to cycle off and there still is no test for HGH which according to this book seems to be more effective than the Roids.

Bonds used chemical enhancements to improve his on the job performance without violating the rules set up by his employer. He isn't OJ Simpson that murdered 2 people and got away with it.


If it was not cheating and not against the rules, then there should be no reason to lie about it. Bonds should not be placed on the same page as Ruth or Aaron if it is proven as fact that he juiced. Ruth or Aaron did not juice.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:19 pm

Jamie wrote: Bonds should not be placed on the same page as Ruth or Aaron if it is proven as fact that he juiced. Ruth or Aaron did not juice.


Listen to the airways... It looks like the only people who put him in the same league as even Mario Mendozza are in S.F. (And who knows what those cats are smoking these days)

:shock:
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:11 pm

Jamie wrote:If it was not cheating and not against the rules, then there should be no reason to lie about it. Bonds should not be placed on the same page as Ruth or Aaron if it is proven as fact that he juiced. Ruth or Aaron did not juice.


Who knows what Aaron or especially Ruth did. I remember there were rumors that Marris used horse steroids. His 61 HR season was an anomaly with most of his other seasons. Using steroids is illegal although not a terribly serious criminal offense in our society.

What Bonds did was not against the rules of MLB. Canseco, McGuire, and others were juicing in the 80s. MLB turned a blind eye to it and in effect gave juicing a tacit endorsement by their inaction.

Gammons has a good column on ESPN Insider today about this issue. The whole era will be known as the juice era and Bonds is clearly the best player of this era. He thinks that as time passes it will come out that many more players were juicing than people think, just as Canseco and the late Caminiti allege.

I personally don't understand the outrage over this. Who cares about MLB and their records. People act as if Bonds is a child abuser. It is very difficult to compare eras and definitively say who is the best HR hitter of all time. There are so many factors like weight training, nutrition, ballpark size, minorities or the lack thereof, dead or live ball, steroids/HGH, etc to consider. Babe Ruth had seasons where he personally hit more HRs than entire teams and eclipsed his closest competitor by 200%-250% in HRs. He easily is the most prolific HR hitter in MLB history when the context of how he performed compared to the era he played in is considered.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:22 pm

Draftnik wrote:Who knows what Aaron or especially Ruth did. I remember there were rumors that Marris used horse steroids.


I think I've heard it all now.

Ruth Aaron and Marris all implicated in using performance enhancing substances...

:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:33 pm

Draftnik wrote:People act as if Bonds is a child abuser.


They do? I read worse vitriol about Penguin players on this message board every day of the week.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:58 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:[People act as if Bonds is a child abuser.


Define child abuser :-)
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