If the Pens move from Pittsburgh, who is to blame?

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Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:25 am

I'll ask again.. Was a public bond of some sort ever proposed? If so, how did it fair?
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Postby Kovy27 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:26 am

I personally will blame Peter.
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:33 am

Blame Lemieux? Funny, that is a good one. To some he can do no wrong and to others he can do no right.

He has done everything in his power he could have. That is my opinion.
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:36 am

spi wrote:Blame Lemieux? Funny, that is a good one. To some he can do no wrong and to others he can do no right.

He has done everything in his power he could have. That is my opinion.


almost everything...
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Postby NIN on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:37 am

spi wrote:Blame Lemieux? Funny, that is a good one. To some he can do no wrong and to others he can do no right.

He has done everything in his power he could have. That is my opinion.


if the team leaves he will not have done enough. But hey, I'll call him a hero if the team stays. If not I'll wipe my butt with my 66 jersey and sell it on Pbay. The "p" is for POOP.
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Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:40 am

Mario is the least of the Pens problems. Without him, this site would not exist. It would be called.. "RJ's boring curling blog".
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:50 pm

f the team leaves he will not have done enough. But hey, I'll call him a hero if the team stays. If not I'll wipe my butt with my 66 jersey and sell it on Pbay. The "p" is for POOP.


Your right NIN, he would have done everything except put on the hard hat and built the thing himself.

Why does everyone who thinks this would be Lemieux's fault if they leave think that it was his obligation to them to buy the team and work for far longer than most to get the team a new arena and to put them in a position to be successful here for the long haul?

I just dont get it.
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Postby Kicksave on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:57 pm

DrBoni wrote:
and Peter.




The ULTIMATE jinx...
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Here we go again with the Mario worshipping...blah, blah, blah...
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Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:58 pm

Kicksave wrote:
DrBoni wrote:
and Peter.




The ULTIMATE jinx...


I thought that was Jesse
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Postby Kicksave on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:59 pm

pensrule wrote:Here we go again with the Mario worshipping...blah, blah, blah...


Here we go with the blind Mario hating..blah, blah, blah...
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Postby Admin on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:06 pm

nexguy66 wrote:I thought that was Jesse

I believe netwolf's organizing a jinx-off between Peter and Jesse.
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:07 pm

Here we go again with the Mario worshipping...blah, blah, blah...


I have asked this before but dont remember any responses.

For those who like to blame Lemieux for any and all that is wrong. What is it that he would have to do to get the respect that he deserves from being one of if not the greatest player in league history?

Just for review:

He came to a dreaded Franchise albeit with hesitation (he was only 18)
He was the cornerstone of a team that won 2 cups
Brought many more awards to the team
Made Pittsburgh into a hockey town (Malone and Umberger thank him)
Retired and bought the team to recoup his money but could have done that any number of ways
Worked for 7 years stating the same message over and over again, New arena to keep team here
Made it know long ago he never wanted to own a team, yet he still hung onto it in hopes of keeping them here.

Just curious what the answers will be. I am sure they will be along the lines of saying that he did not threaten suicide if the politicians did not build the arena. Or better yet that he is all greed and never once thought about the franchise. ONLY himself.
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:07 pm

Kicksave wrote:
pensrule wrote:Here we go again with the Mario worshipping...blah, blah, blah...


Here we go with the blind Mario hating..blah, blah, blah...


It is certainly not about hating Mario, for me. If you would have read my previous post, you'd see that. I'm just tired of everytime someone questions Mario on this topic, everyone goes running back to 1998 or whatever year the bankruptcy was. Fine he did a great thing for HIMSELF and us back then, a couple more months and he could have guranteed 30 more years of happiness.
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:09 pm

spi wrote:
Here we go again with the Mario worshipping...blah, blah, blah...


I have asked this before but dont remember any responses.

For those who like to blame Lemieux for any and all that is wrong. What is it that he would have to do to get the respect that he deserves from being one of if not the greatest player in league history?

Just for review:

He came to a dreaded Franchise albeit with hesitation (he was only 18)
He was the cornerstone of a team that won 2 cups
Brought many more awards to the team
Made Pittsburgh into a hockey town (Malone and Umberger thank him)
Retired and bought the team to recoup his money but could have done that any number of ways
Worked for 7 years stating the same message over and over again, New arena to keep team here
Made it know long ago he never wanted to own a team, yet he still hung onto it in hopes of keeping them here.

Just curious what the answers will be. I am sure they will be along the lines of saying that he did not threaten suicide if the politicians did not build the arena. Or better yet that he is all greed and never once thought about the franchise. ONLY himself.


I love Mario the hockey player. He is the greatest player to ever play the game.
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Postby Kicksave on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:19 pm

Admin wrote:
nexguy66 wrote:I thought that was Jesse

I believe netwolf's organizing a jinx-off between Peter and Jesse.


And the winner....


Image
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:25 pm

a couple more months and he could have guranteed 30 more years of happiness


This is where it becomes like politics or religion in that we just probably disagree on the issue, which is fine because we are all entitled to our own opinions. No matter how much arguing, you will never change the persons opinion.

My view is that if he held onto the team, the advantage would always be with the politicians because they knew that he would not move them OR they wanted him to be the one to take the fall if they moved. Mario did the right thing, albeit risky, to remove himself and his loyalty to the fans and city out of the equation and essentially weekening the politicians hands. I also admit that he did so for personal reasons specifically the value of the team was higher before the license was awarded.

Every single big business decision has risks and rewards. The greater the risk the greater the reward or loss. My point is that there is a reason there is stilll a chance that the penguins will be here for 30 more years. The reason is Lemieux Group LLP. The reason they may still leave is the silence of the politicians for the better part of a decade on the arena.
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:28 pm

spi wrote:
a couple more months and he could have guranteed 30 more years of happiness


This is where it becomes like politics or religion in that we just probably disagree on the issue, which is fine because we are all entitled to our own opinions. No matter how much arguing, you will never change the persons opinion.

My view is that if he held onto the team, the advantage would always be with the politicians because they knew that he would not move them OR they wanted him to be the one to take the fall if they moved. Mario did the right thing, albeit risky, to remove himself and his loyalty to the fans and city out of the equation and essentially weekening the politicians hands. I also admit that he did so for personal reasons specifically the value of the team was higher before the license was awarded.

Every single big business decision has risks and rewards. The greater the risk the greater the reward or loss. My point is that there is a reason there is stilll a chance that the penguins will be here for 30 more years. The reason is Lemieux Group LLP. The reason they may still leave is the silence of the politicians for the better part of a decade on the arena.


I agree 100% with your view there spi. Without the fear of relocation, the politicans wouldn't move. That fear would not be there with Mario.
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Postby jimjom on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:37 pm

Dan Kesa & Roman Simicek.
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:03 pm

spi wrote:
a couple more months and he could have guranteed 30 more years of happiness


This is where it becomes like politics or religion in that we just probably disagree on the issue, which is fine because we are all entitled to our own opinions. No matter how much arguing, you will never change the persons opinion.

My view is that if he held onto the team, the advantage would always be with the politicians because they knew that he would not move them OR they wanted him to be the one to take the fall if they moved. Mario did the right thing, albeit risky, to remove himself and his loyalty to the fans and city out of the equation and essentially weekening the politicians hands. I also admit that he did so for personal reasons specifically the value of the team was higher before the license was awarded.

Every single big business decision has risks and rewards. The greater the risk the greater the reward or loss. My point is that there is a reason there is stilll a chance that the penguins will be here for 30 more years. The reason is Lemieux Group LLP. The reason they may still leave is the silence of the politicians for the better part of a decade on the arena.


I agree that it certainly puts the onus on the politicians to come up with a kick a** plan now. I guess my concren is that with Balsille as the owner, they may put the greatest plan in the world together and he can still find some hole that will allow him to pick up and move. Where as if Mario still owned the team, if there was a legitimate plan in place, they wouldn't go anywhere.

Now where right back to the it's been 7 years thing again, but the lease is up now, there's casino money and the deal would have to get done. I guess it's just tredpidation on my part, but I would feel much better if Mario was still calling the shots until the whole arena issue is resolved.
Last edited by pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:05 pm

um... if a bond was proposed to pay for the new arena.. how did it do?
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:14 pm

nexguy66 wrote:um... if a bond was proposed to pay for the new arena.. how did it do?


My understanding is they will float bonds under Plan 'B' to construct the arena and use the 3 sources (Pens 4.1M, FC or PITG 7.5M, and the 7.5M from the state gambling pool) to pay it off.
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:18 pm

pensrule, I definitley see what you are saying. I'd feel a lot better if Lemieux was still owner too, but their may not even be a plan 'b' out there if he was still owner. The arena under the IOC plan wouldn't hold as much weight either because they would know Lemieux wouldn't move the team. That is what makes the IOC plan that much more favorable.

If Lemieux was owner, no one would be moving on this, and the IOC bid wouldn't hold as much weight.
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:19 pm

I think that we both agree on this
I guess it's just tredpidation on my part, but I would feel much better if Mario was still calling the shots until the whole arena issue is resolved.


But the reality is that even if IOC loses, the politicians will have to make a sweetheart deal to keep them since JB is the owner. If Mario still owned them and Plan B was on the table, they would be much less inclined to negotiate to the lowest of the low possible #s.

In the end, if the pens stay, they will have a great arena deal that will allow them to compete on an anual basis. If they go, it was because they (politicos)did not go low enough.

In all honesty, I really think that emotionaly JB probably would prefer to move the team to his neck of the woods but if the deal is right financially and it makes more economic sense to keep them here, he will. JB is not a billionare because he has made rash emotional decisions. If he moves them it will be because there is a better deal out there or a place he thinks they will make more $$. I am assuming that billionaires dont like to overpay for things and hate to lose money. Moving the team to Kitchner in the long run would mean that he overpaid and lost a ton of cash.

However, I do like the fact that when we all read about Kitchner, it means Dan O, crookED and Ravenshal have a face to look at as competition for the pens.
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Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:29 pm

spi wrote:I think that we both agree on this
I guess it's just tredpidation on my part, but I would feel much better if Mario was still calling the shots until the whole arena issue is resolved.


But the reality is that even if IOC loses, the politicians will have to make a sweetheart deal to keep them since JB is the owner. If Mario still owned them and Plan B was on the table, they would be much less inclined to negotiate to the lowest of the low possible #s.

In the end, if the pens stay, they will have a great arena deal that will allow them to compete on an anual basis. If they go, it was because they (politicos)did not go low enough.

In all honesty, I really think that emotionaly JB probably would prefer to move the team to his neck of the woods but if the deal is right financially and it makes more economic sense to keep them here, he will. JB is not a billionare because he has made rash emotional decisions. If he moves them it will be because there is a better deal out there or a place he thinks they will make more $$. I am assuming that billionaires dont like to overpay for things and hate to lose money. Moving the team to Kitchner in the long run would mean that he overpaid and lost a ton of cash.

However, I do like the fact that when we all read about Kitchner, it means Dan O, crookED and Ravenshal have a face to look at as competition for the pens.


Agreed, let's hope it works out that they stay. Good chatting with you....
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