Sherwood Wars Post-Game Thread

[redwill]

Sherwood Wars is done and done!

Congratulations to the village of Wickham!

Survivors:
Zarovich: Herne the Hunter
LITT: regular villager


RPs:
Robin (seeer): count2infinity
Marion (mason): newarenanow
Will Scarlet (vig): thehockeyguru
Herne the Hunter (angel): Zarovich
Robert of Huntingdon: mac5155

Robert de Rainault (lead baddie): doublem
Guy of Gisbourne: Kraftster
Hugo de Rainault: Troy Loney
Mark the Traitor: the wicked child
Philip Mark (new lead baddie): slappybrown

Simon de Belleme: relantel
Nasir: shafnutz05
Lillith: Azkar

The roles:

Robert de Rainault (pronounced RAY-no), Sheriff of Nottingham
- You are the leader of the Normans. Your goal is to eliminate everyone who is not in your group. You may communicate freely via PM with all others in your group, but you make the final decisions. You kill once per night, starting with Night 1. You must attempt a kill every night.
- Additionally, you may BUY OFF other players. Once per night, you may choose another player. Send that player's name to me, along with the player you want voted for. The following day phase, that player MUST vote for whomever you say. However, you are not that rich, so you can only buy off a player THREE times, and you may only buy off any given player ONCE in the game.
- You have no recruiting ability, but you have a Traitor among the villagers who knows who you all are. The Traitor is unkown to you, but will work to achieve a Norman win and wins or loses with you.
-----------------
Sir Guy of Gisbourne: You are a Norman. You are the knight-commander of the Nottingham garrison. You have very limited abilities:
- one investigation: once per game, tell me during the night which player you want to investigate.
- one day protection: once per game, tell me during the night which player you want to protect during the next day (that person cannot be lynched).
-----------------
Hugo de Rainault (pronounced RAY-no): You are a Norman. You are the brother of the Sheriff and an Abbot.
- You have no abilities beyond communication via PM with the other Normans.
-----------------
Mark: You are a Traitor.
- You are working for the Normans. They do not know who you are, but you know who they are:
- You may NOT communicate with them.
- If investigated, you come up as a regular villager.
- Your goal is to work for a Norman victory. You win or lose with them.

-----------------
If Robert de Rainault dies, a regular is randomly chosen to replace him as:

Philip Mark, Sheriff of Nottingham
- You have been selected by the Crown to be the new Sheriff of Nottingham.
- You are the new leader of the Normans. Your goal is to eliminate everyone who is not in your group. You may communicate freely via PM with all others in your group, but you make the final decisions. You kill once per night. You must attempt a kill every night.
- Additionally, you may BUY OFF other players. Once per night, you may choose another player. Send that player's name to me. The following day phase, that player MUST vote for whomever you say. However, you are not that rich, so you can only buy off a player [buyoffs remaining minus 1] times, and you may only buy off any given player ONCE in the game.


---------------------------------------------------------


Robin of Loxley: You are Robin i' the Hood; Herne's Son.
- You have seer abilities: One investigation every night. Send me a player's name by PM and I will let you know that player's identity.
- You may freely communicate via PM with newarenanow,who is Marion of Leaford.
- If you investigate Will Scarlet, you may freely communicate via PM with that player.
-----------------
Marion of Leaford: You are a mason with Robin of Loxley.
- you may freely communicate via PM with count2infinity, who is Robin of Loxley.
-----------------
Will Scarlet: You are the Vigilante of Sherwood Forest
- You may kill every other night, starting with Night 2.
- You may accumulate any number of kills and use them as you see fit (including multiple kills in one night).
-----------------
Herne the Hunter: You are the Lord of the Trees, the spirit-god of Sherwood Forest.
- You have Angel abilities: One protect every night; you may protect yourself; you may protect the same person two nights in a row.
- You are immune to daytime lynchings.
- However, if you are targeted for a day lynch, you lose your immunity to lynching the following day.
- Also, if you are targeted for a night kill, and are protected, you lose the ability to protect yourself the following night. You may still protect another during that night.

-------------------
If Robin dies AND Herne is still alive, a regular is randomly chosen to replace him as:

Robert of Huntingdon: You are the new Robin i' the Hood; Herne's Son
- You have been selected by Herne the Hunter to be his Son
- You have seer abilities: One investigation every night. Send me a player's name by PM and I will let you know that player's identity.
- There is a delay, however: You must wait a full night phase before you may investigate at night.


---------------------------------------------------------


Simon de Belleme: You are a Worshipper of the devil Azael.
- Your goal is to eliminate anyone who is not you or your follower(s).
- If investigated, you will come back as a regular villager. If investigated, your follower(s) will be identified as followers of Azael.
- Once during the game, you may investigate another player.
- You cannot be killed Night 1. After that, if you die (day or night kill) the write-up will reveal you as a regular villager but you will return the phase AFTER the next phase. For example, if you are killed during the day, you lose any abilities during the following night phase and will return the following day phase. You may PM during the time you are dead. If killed during the night, you may NOT post during the following day phase but will regain your abilities during the folowing night phase. This is a one-time deal: if killed again, you will permanently die and any surviving follower(s) will revert to regular villagers.
- You have one follower to start the game: Nasir the Assassin. You may gain another follower during the game, depending on certain conditions. Nasir kills at your command. He may only kill once, but that person will die REGARDLESS OF ANY PROTECTION. You must send me the PM, not Nasir.
- You may freely communicate via PM with Nasir.
-----------------
Nasir: You are a follower of Simon de Belleme. You are an Assassin.
- Once during the game, Simon may choose a player for you to kill during the night. That person will die REGARDLESS OF ANY PROTECTION. Simon must send me the PM, not you.
- If Simon dies, you revert to a regular villager with the goal of helping the village defeat the baddies.
- If Simon dies before you kill, you lose the ability to kill.
- You may freely communicate via PM with Simon.
-----------------
Lillith: You are a follower of Simon de Belleme.
- Your goal is to help Simon de Belleme win the game.
- Once during the game, you may kill during the night. Send me the PM.
- If Simon dies, you revert to a regular villager with the goal of helping the village defeat the baddies.
- If Simon dies before you kill, you lose the ability to kill.
- You may freely communicate via PM with Simon.

Conditions for new follower of Simon de Belleme:
- if the one investigation finds Marion of Leaford, the player with that character becomes a follower AND remains as a mason with the seer (the seer obviously does not know that Marion has been turned)
- if Simon dies (the first time) AND Robin (seer) is still alive, then a random regular (if any remain) is chosen to become a follower. This follower has a single night kill ability (simple kill, not assassin).


Actions:

Night 1:
c2i investigates Kraftster
Zaro protects Zaro
doublem kills pittsports87
thg doesn't have kill (0)

Day 1:
The village lynches Senka

Night 2:
c2i investigates canaan
Zaro protects Zaro
doublem kills cup keeper
thg doesn't use kill (1)

Day 2:
The village lynches Kicksave

Night 3:
c2i investigates LITT
Zaro protects Troy Loney
doublem kills thehockeyguru
thg doesn't use kill (1) (dies)

Day 3:
the village lynches doublem
* slappybrown becomes new Sheriff (was a regular villager, randomly chosen to become a Norman)

Night 4:
c2i investigates PFIDC
Zaro protects Zaro
slappybrown kills canaan

Day 4:
The village lynches Kraftster

Night 5:
c2i investigates mac5155
Zaro protects Zaro
slappybrown kills shafnutz05
relantel investigates mac5155

Day 5:
The villages lynches relantel
* Azkar becomes Lillith

Night 6:
c2i investigates Malkamaniac
Zaro protects Troy Loney
slappybrown kills Malkamaniac
slappybrown buys-off slappybrowns vote, slappybrown must vote for Troy Loney

Day 6:
The village lynches MWB

Night 7:
c2i investigates the wicked child (but wuz deaded, so didn't know the result)
Zaro protects Zaro
slappybrown kills c2i
* mac5155 becomes new Robin Hood (but cannot use seer power for the following night)

Day 7:
The village lynches slappybrown
* Troy Loney becomes leader of Normans

Night 8:
Zaro protects Zaro
Troy Loney kills mac5155 (mac revealed as a regular villager 'cause he wasn't yet the seer at his point)
Azkar kills newarenanow

Day 8:
The village lynches Azkar

Night 9:
Zaro protects LITT
Troy Loney kills PFIDC

Day 9:
The village lynches the wicked child

Night 10:
Zaro protects Zaro
Troy kills Zaro (protected)

Day 10:
The village lynches Troy Loney

Day 11:
The village lynches relantel

I think that's everything, but I'm rushing this a bit...


Thanks to everyone who played!

Thanks especially to shafnutz05 for doing a great job as co-mod!

I'll post more thoughts on the game and the game design in a little while.

[MWB]

Thanks redwill, it was fun.

[redwill]

I'm sorry Troy is so bitter about not be able to do a no-kill, but it really has to be that way, IMO.

Otherwise, if the game was deadlocked, the baddie could just refuse to kill every night and the game would never end. It's a non-sporting way to avoid a loss. In this case, he had a definite plan to kill again, so it was unfortunate for him, but that's why the rule is set up that way.

[redwill]

Also, due to the limitations of my protections, I actually protected Troy twice, on nights 3 and 6.

There was no such limitation. IF you were targeted at night, you couldn't protect yourself the next night. You were not targeted until Night 10, so you certainly could have protected yourself Nights 3 and 6. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant...

[Azkar]

I seriously couldn't find the logically reasoning behind lynching me when anyone did

[redwill]

Game design notes:

- When I originally designed the game some months ago, I had the Simon de Belleme role (relantel) as a cult, like in jaysmiter's Fantasy Wars. I changed that, however, because (1) twc had done something very similar in Barnyard Battle and I thought people would quickly figure it out, and (2) there really weren't enough players. So I changed it to just a independent role with one or two followers. In so doing, I made the role pretty impossible to win with. Sorry relantel. The fact that he lasted so long is a tribute to him.

- Also, I had too many RPs I wanted in the game when the game had only 22 players. On the other hand, there were a lot of people who could talk to each other during the game. Personally, I much prefer to be just a regular blue when I play these games, but I also like the interaction when I'm an RP.


- In terms of game-balance, my thinking was this:

- - the baddies had only one investigation and one (day) protect. They could kill every night, but I thought they needed more, so I put in the "buy-off" feature and the Traitor role. I've never gone back and read 1984 Wars (which I didn't play in), so I didn't even know that slappy had put that in or how it worked. I definitely didn't intend for the baddies to be able to buy off their own votes, but when slappy said he wanted to do that, I realized I hadn't put in a rule against doing that, so I had to let it go. It made things more interesting, though. The Traitor role was obviously difficult. He could have unwittingly been killed by the baddies at any time. As with rel, it's amazing twc lasted so long.

- - the goodies had more power than the baddies, given the seer-mason combo plus the fact that if the seer investigated the vig, they could all three communicate. Not to mention that the angel was mostly immune from day lynchings. That's why I added the buy-off feature for the baddies, as well as the Traitor role. I liked the seer-mason combo, though. Given the fact that it was Robin and Marion, I kind of had to do it.

- - poor relantel and shafnutz (and later Azkar) had very little power as the 3rd-party-ers. I gave them the one-time power of Assassination, which would have killed anyone regardless of protection, but they couldn't waste that until they knew some roles. By the time that happened, shaf was dead. One powerful feature that didn't come about was the one investigation. If they had investigated the mason Marion (nan), he would have joined them while maintaining his mason status with the seer. So relantel would have had access to all of the seer info.

- - I thought the replacement Sheriff (slappy) and the replacement Robin Hood (mac) would balance out, especially given the fact that the new Robin Hood had to take a one-night break from seering and could not communicate with anyone (plus the fact that there were two non-blue characters who came back blue if investigated). I was wrong about all that, though. I immediately regretted it. Giving the goodies a new seer after they lose their old one is too powerful. Luckily (from my point of view) Troy killed mac immediately after mac became the new seer.

[doublem]

Fun game.

[the wicked child]

I seriously couldn't find the logically reasoning behind lynching me when anyone did

you weren't red. so you needed to be dead.

[Kraftster]

I was really screwed catching up at work after a mini-vacation. I was MIA the first couple days.

And then the day the heat came I was on a conference call. I had sort of planned the Little John JOAT claim since I had two of the three powers I listed myself and could have had doublem/slappy kill if we determined it would benefit us, so I could have really done all three things if the village asked me to. I was pissed that I came in after the final vote had been cast.

Very fun game, redwill!

[redwill]

I was really screwed catching up at work after a mini-vacation. I was MIA the first couple days.

And then the day the heat came I was on a conference call. I had sort of planned the Little John JOAT claim since I had two of the three powers I listed myself and could have had doublem/slappy kill if we determined it would benefit us, so I could have really done all three things if the village asked me to. I was pissed that I came in after the final vote had been cast.

Very fun game, redwill!

Thanks!

I presume that c2i investigated you the first night because in the Sign-Up Thread you said you wanted to be Will Scarlet. I think he was looking for Will Scarlet and found Sir Guy of Gisbourne.

[MWB]

I seriously couldn't find the logically reasoning behind lynching me when anyone did

Same here.

[redwill]

I wanted to add that it was strange that:

- Neither of the two players who would have come back blue if investigated (twc and rel) were ever investigated; and
- Neither of the two blue players who became non-blue (slappy and Azkar) had been investigated while they were blue. If they had, they would have had some defense against lynching.

mac was investigated while he was blue and then he became green, but that didn't play any part in the game, nor would it have even if he had lived.

[relantel]

It was a great game. To win, we pretty much had to have had Shaf last to the end, in order to kill Zaro, or otherwise had greater numbers in the final day. By the endgame (4 left day phase), I was looking at which ways would cause a draw, and came to the conclusion none of them really involved me, unless it went the way it did, but then it counted on breaking up Zaro and LITT. I probably should have forced the 2-2- draw.

[redwill]

I probably should have forced the 2-2- draw.

I gotta admit that, as a mod, I was sure as Hell hoping you didn't.

[pittsports87]

boo doublem!

[Zarovich]

Also, due to the limitations of my protections, I actually protected Troy twice, on nights 3 and 6.

There was no such limitation. IF you were targeted at night, you couldn't protect yourself the next night. You were not targeted until Night 10, so you certainly could have protected yourself Nights 3 and 6. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant...

OMG. I thought the max I could protect was 2 times in a row, then had to change target. I understood the target at night and having to change target. Reading comprehension fail... LOL

[doublem]

boo doublem!

[relantel]

[relantel]

I was surprised no one really pressed for an explanation of why I returned after dying.

I had a story and roleclaim ready to go... was going to claim to be Sir Richard of Leaford (Marian's father), who had been presumed dead but returned in the series. That the role was essentially blue save for the resurrection. The character in most tellings of the Robin Hood saga is a King Richard loyalist, antagonistic to the Sheriff and Prince John. Not always as Marian's father, though... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_at_the_Lee)

By the end though, I had lost my claim draft (work computer/home computer - it was on one, I was on the other), but I am not sure it would have mattered given how tight Zaro was to LITT.

[MWB]

I was surprised no one really pressed for an explanation of why I returned after dying.

I tried, but got lynched.

[the wicked child]

I tried to get you lynched but got lynched myself. Should have really been a slam dunk once Troy was gone. Not sure why it took Zaro so long to vote.

[redwill]

In my original version, when relantel's role, Simon de Belleme, was a full-blown cult leader, the Robin Hood character possessed the Silver Arrow, which could be used periodically. If Robin targeted Simon de Belleme with it, Simon died (but could come back if certain conditions were met). If a follower of Simon was targeted, that target permanently reverted to his role status before he was recruited. If a non-cult member was targeted, mildly weird things would happen.

I got rid of the Arrow when I did away with the cult, so I didn't get to use the riddle "What binds the hunter to the hunted?"

[Zarovich]

I tried to get you lynched but got lynched myself. Should have really been a slam dunk once Troy was gone. Not sure why it took Zaro so long to vote.

dramatic effect?

[the wicked child]

I tried to get you lynched but got lynched myself. Should have really been a slam dunk once Troy was gone. Not sure why it took Zaro so long to vote.

dramatic effect?

Sure.